Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

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chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:34 pm

fwiw wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:42 am
Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:14 am
A Dernière Heure reporter doing a report on the recent incidents in Charleroi was placed under administrative arrest after officers accused him of being a “fake journalist”.
http://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/13 ... -charleroi

DS
This is another, separate case. Both journalists have eventually been released. But both have been apprehended for no reason by out-of-control police agents. Typical power trip against journalists. At the heart of Europe.
On redit I found:
Remy Buisine, journaliste de « brut » rapportant la situation avec les gilets jaunes de Bruxelles, se fait tranquillement arrêter en direct devant 20 000 spectateurs sur Facebook.
Is this the one you reported first or is this yet a third journalist jailed in brussels?
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:59 pm

Regular people are insurgent against the police that attacks them constantly for no reason. They then retaliate. Violence is usually planted and used to discredit dissent, but people start thinking now that violence is justified in response to violent action from the police, which is something we can't condone but can very easily understand. A climate of insurrection has taken over the whole country, not just Paris.
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:35 pm

Some people also attack cars that are symbol of wealth (Porsche) or official position (diplomatic vehicles). It's mob rule, not intelligent, but it reveals that people are fed up with those who have money and/or power because they see them as the first responsible for the dysfunctions of society, both social and environmental
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:16 am

Beginnings of French Revolution Deux?

DS
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:41 am

Hopefully not. The French revolution was an awful murderous mess

The best hope imo is that it would open people's eyes about the system of government they actually live in (oligarchic police state) and lead peacefully towards actual democracy
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chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:28 pm

Yeah, those police are such fascists.....if they were in tune with a more democratic point of view they would just let the people riot and maybe even encourage those people to burn cars, break windows, graffit graffiti, loot stores, and generally run amok.....after all it is just a statement of wanting to be taken seriously in favor of democracy.
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:08 pm




... in my opinion (<- meaning unless one is talking about something one has been a direct witness of, every single thing anyone ever says is no more than an opinion. Also, don't ask me to do your research for you)

chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:37 am

It's like a battle zone and in battle zones there are often excesses on both sides. Not going to use my time to find videos of the excesses of either side......does anyone really imagine that they don't exist?....on both sides?
Sad to see that such violence has broken out ostensibly from the price of petrol.....although I really do think that petrol was just the excuse the instigators used to get things going. Now it is time for someone to claim that it is the gov't which is the instigator.......the gov't claims they are instigating for an increase in revenue to clean up the air by promoting electric tranportation.....
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:10 pm

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chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:10 am

French lawmakers from all political parties have paid tribute to police forces with a rare unanimity, giving them a standing ovation in the lower house of parliament after Prime Minister Edouard Philippe praised their professionalism in Saturday's riot in Paris.

The prime minister, speaking in the National Assembly, fielded multiple questions about the fuel tax - and in his first response, he mentioned the rioting and the bravery of police, prompting lawmakers from various parties to stand and applaud.
From: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-frenc ... 50468.html
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:40 am

French lawmakers from all political parties have paid tribute to police forces with a rare unanimity, giving them a standing ovation in the lower house of parliament after Prime Minister Edouard Philippe praised their professionalism in Saturday's riot in Paris.
This is a misreport.

Lawmakers from the actual left have not participated to the standing ovation

72% of the French people still support the yellow vests despite the violence, although 85% disapprove of the violence. Large sectors of the French population know very well that the violence is fomented by the government (presumably to discredit the movement). We have seen countless times the police sending teargas onto peaceful protesters, or using water canon, sometimes nearly point-blank, which makes the easily irascible really angry and then violent. Those are old tactics used by the powers that be to discredit dissent.

But you always have those who fall for them, despite overwhelming evidence filmed in the streets by large numbers of regular people
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chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:50 am

fwiw wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:08 pm



I finally took the time to look at these videos. IN the first one the grandmotherly woman kicked a gas grenade towards the police.....this is agressive action against the police and in crowd control agressive actions towards the police are subject to police intervention so no one should be surprised that the police took action....however it didn't look like she was significantly injured.....and then the man (who is one of the stars in the other video) made an aggressive gesture towards the police when in close quarters with them and again no one should be surprised that the police took action after his agressive movemnent....and again it doesn't appear that he was significantly injured in that he got up and then went and made more aggressive movements towards a group of police which can be seen in the background.

I think the second video starts with the aggressive action seen in the background of the previous video only from a closer perspective of a different reporter. I think the second video is just a continuation of the first one with a change of camera angle between the two. The man continues his beligerent and aggressive action and the police continue to take action. It does not seem that he was significantly injured in that in the end he is standing and seems to be sound of limb with no blood evident.

So, these two videos are really just one incident I think. If this is the worst done then I would say that worse things happen at pre-adolescent football matches from time to time.

Really this is weak evidence of police "brutality".....it really seems that the police were showing some degree of restraint as indicated by the one police officer shrugging towards the demonstrator unagressively and evidently communicating a reply as to why they took action....the shrug was probably..."well, she kicked the gas grenade into our formation which is disruptive and aggressive so we did what prudent crowd control measure would call for....a non-lethal and non injuring response to clearly show that any aggressive action by anyone will be met with deterence."

Seems to me like fairly reasonable (if not totally reasonable) crowd control measures....

Also, it seems like these two protesters were sort of emboldened to act by the presence of the cameras....it gave the cameras some sort of 'brutality' which could be propogandized by the instigators.

I'm really surprised at how uneventful those videos are.....I really expected something way more majorly to appear.

I think that these are the kinds of actions by the police which were applauded with a standing ovation in the french lower house of representatives.
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:59 pm

Vigi, a major police union, calls for indefinite strike starting next saturday when the protests are expected be back all over the country, in solidarity with the yellow vests. They are joined by ambulance drivers, nurses and other hospital staff, employees of the train company etc. etc.

If the police goes on strike they can incapacitate the ability of the government to lock down access to central places of power.

via google translate:
The union Vigi joined the movement of yellow vests calling for an indefinite strike from Saturday, the day of act 4 of the mobilization.

The police union Vigi has filed an unlimited strike notice from Saturday, December 8, date of act 4 yellow vests. "It is time to organize legally and to be in solidarity with them, for the benefit of all," write the officials of the trade union in a statement, explaining joining the movement of social protest.

To prevent recurrence of violence last Saturday in Paris on the sidelines of the peaceful mobilization of yellow vests, in which 23 members of the police were wounded, according to an official count, the safety device must still be reinforced this Saturday in anticipation of the act 4. "Our hierarchy will still send us take the blows in its place and instead of the government," laments the union.

"We know that we will have wounded and we fear to have dead among us", continue the officials, criticizing the exceptional "premium" promised by Emmanuel Macron for the forces of the order mobilized, "of a lower amount of the cost of overtime on the day of December 1 ". Claim shared by other union representatives.

The strike notice does not concern all police officers but the administrative, technical, scientific and state workers of the Ministry of the Interior. "Without the technical assistants and cooks, the CRS companies can be immobilized without the administrative assistants, services can be closed, without the state workers the maintenance of buildings and vehicles can no longer be done", warns Vigi .

https://www.bfmtv.com/police-justice/gi ... 82326.html
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:16 pm

Here is the speech that prompted the aforementioned standing ovation by the majority in parliament over actual images of extreme police brutality that took place these last few days

link

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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:33 pm

You probably can't understand what she says, but you can have a feeling of this 67 years old retiree (anti-deforestation activist) who participated to the protests on Nov 24th.

She says that they were protesting peacefully on the Champs Elysées when for no apparent reason they were suddenly blocked by the anti-protest squads who fired a very large number of teargas bottles onto the protesters. The configuration of the place made it impossible for protesters to retreat, so they had to suffer the full effect of the teargas. i think there is reasonable ground to call this a form of torture. Once this episode was over, it happened again some time later in the same conditions. After that, despite being a pacifist, she was very upset and helped others build barricades in the middle of the avenue. She says at that point it was a matter of legitimate defense. That sounds to me like a rather reasonable summary of the situation.

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:15 pm

An overview from outside France: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-06/ ... s/10587730

:coffee:
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:56 pm

It looks like a fair assessment
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:51 am

Seen in France yesterday. Those are high school students who joined the yellow vests movements and protested in the streets. Apparently, two cars have been burned during the protest. Yet wouldn't that scene fit the textbook definition of a police state?

link




Here are images of what lead up to that

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chownah
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by chownah » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:23 am

48 police officers injured at Yellow Vest protests in Toulouse (PHOTOS, VIDEO)
https://www.rt.com/news/445405-france-t ... t-protest/
More than 50 people, most of them police officers, were injured in Toulouse during protests against fuel price hikes. Yellow Vest demonstrations turned into riots, making the southern French city and Paris look like battlefields.


As France struggles to come to grips with the intensity of widespread protests against increasing fuel prices, which have grown violent over the past weeks, authorities in Toulouse said on Sunday that 57 people, including 48 police officers, had been injured in clashes during Saturday’s riots. Five police officers were hospitalized.
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fwiw
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Re: Gilets Jaunes : a popular uprising?

Post by fwiw » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 pm

Protester filming the arrest of a high school student gets violently arrested

We can hear the following:

(woman in the crowd): "You will be held accountable when all this is over. You will be found. As citizens, you will be held accountable."
(someone close to the person holding the camera): "Stop it, it's a shame to beat youngsters. Frighten them but don't beat them."
(woman): "I would be ashamed if I were you... (inaudible but I think something about "your wife and children")"
".. (inaudible) .."
(someone close to the person holding the camera): "why?"
".. (inaudible) .."
Policeman: "You have nothing to do here"

link




I think it becomes safer to say by the day: France is a neoliberal police state
... in my opinion (<- meaning unless one is talking about something one has been a direct witness of, every single thing anyone ever says is no more than an opinion. Also, don't ask me to do your research for you)

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