Where should we get our news?

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events, politics and economics.
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Kim O'Hara
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Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Here's a chart of major media outlets' bias, broken down according to how much of their reporting is based on fact and how much they slant their stories.

media-bias.jpg
media-bias.jpg (119.55 KiB) Viewed 5801 times
Ideally we will get our news from the top and centre of the chart.

The chart is American so some of us have other sources to consider. Australia's ABC, for instance, is up there with the BBC it was modelled on.

:namaste:
Kim
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by lyndon taylor »

Sorry but I don't see the Aust. ABC on the Chart, just the USA one. But it is the best source of news I know.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

lyndon taylor wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:52 am Sorry but I don't see the Aust. ABC on the Chart, just the USA one. But it is the best source of news I know.
My wording was ambiguous - sorry. The Australian ABC isn't on the chart. "Australia's ABC, for instance, is as good as the BBC it was modelled on," would have been clearer.

:oops:
Kim
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by lyndon taylor »

Actually the BBC sucks and has gone further to the right, the ABC is much better IMHO
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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DNS
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by DNS »

https://www.dw.com/

Because it has a great domain name. :tongue:

And it's actually pretty good news site too.
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by lyndon taylor »

is that deutsche welle???
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

DNS wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:00 pm https://www.dw.com/

Because it has a great domain name. :tongue:

And it's actually pretty good news site too.
I thought DW was a Dharma Wheel news site new to me :rofl:
I used to read the print edition of Die Welt
DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Here are a few long articles on the Chart methodology.

DS
Last edited by Dorje Shedrub on Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed duplicate chart
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL
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fwiw
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:29 am Here's a chart of major media outlets' bias, broken down according to how much of their reporting is based on fact and how much they slant their stories.


media-bias.jpg

Ideally we will get our news from the top and centre of the chart.
I completely disagree.

It seems to me that this chart oversimplifies everything and keeps on promoting the toxic stereotypes that prevent people from seeing the truth about the news media. As the author herself acknowledges, she does simplify in a way that is genuinely open to criticism for the sake of having a simple 2 dimensional chart (but if simplicity is the priority over basic truthfulness, what is the point?) plus there are many other factors to this story but she completely downplays them, particularly what she calls the establishment-populist axis, which is probably the most important axis.

There is no point dividing the spectrum in left and right if both sides of what is considered the center-acceptable outlets for example support war or remain silent on important issues like the recent 700 billion dollars military spending *increase* with no debate whatsoever on either side.

I would suggest people read or learn about Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media:
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media is a book written by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky, in which the authors propose that the mass communication media of the U.S. "are effective and powerful ideological institutions that carry out a system-supportive propaganda function, by reliance on market forces, internalized assumptions, and self-censorship, and without overt coercion", by means of the propaganda model of communication.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent


Full documentary:

... just my opinion, for what it's worth
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:goodpost:
But it does take the discussion to a deeper level than the chart's author attempted.
Would you agree that, if we are choosing between the outlets on the chart, top and centre is best?
If not, why not, and where should we look?

:namaste:
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by DNS »

Dorje Shedrub wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:26 pm I thought DW was a Dharma Wheel news site new to me :rofl:
I used to read the print edition of Die Welt
DS
:thumb: Sprechen Sie Deutsch? (my Deutsch is sub-par even though I was born there and lived 7 years there.)
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Dorje Shedrub wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:33 pm Here are a few long articles on the Chart methodology.

DS
:thanks:
I haven't read all of them but I particularly liked the extended analogy between food habits and information habits, and the distinction "between “news” and “news-like information,” the latter being characterized by high levels of opinion and analysis and low levels of editorial review."
As she goes on to say, "In the realm of “news-like information,” we now have choices of multiple 24-hour cable news channels, thousands of online news sites and blogs, thousands of YouTube channels, and the constant promotion to us thereof through social media," It's junk (information) food, not fake (information) food - donuts and fries, not plastic models of food.

:namaste:
Kim
chownah
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by chownah »

Having worked for an "underground" newspaper for a short time in the sixties I got what I think is a pretty good picture of news bias...both in the mainstream media and in the newspaper I worked for...

As a result I am fully aware that ALL news media outlets have the potential for bias and that none should be trusted completely. That makes it alot work to get a good idea about what is happening....I think the internet has not made it any easier.

I think it is good to get some kind of idea about what the really biased outlets are saying (on all sides) but you have to be sure that your BS radar is up to the task. One problem I see is that going to those fringe sites on the internet is giving them support...not only for the revenues they get from advertisements which often depends on getting a certain amount of hits and in terms of their bragging rights about how popular they are...even if you think popularity is not important in gauging a site there are really a huge number of people who really are impressed with how popoular a site is and use that popularity as a gauge of importance.....so.....I don't make a habit of clicking on fringe sites too much and try to find out what they are saying by reading article about what they are saying from a more neutral source.

There is no easy way to find out what is going on.
chownah
Leeuwenhoek
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Leeuwenhoek »

Where should we get our news?

This may seem so basic as to be "obvious" but one is advised to get news from sources which, among other virtues:
  • Includes citation to sources
  • Identifies the person(s) who is the source of the information, report, document etc quoted
  • In the case of reports, statistics, data or information explains who published the information and how it was created/derived. URL's to sources are strongly indicated even for printed documents.
  • In the case of polls, report the actual text of the question asked.
  • In the case of rankings or comparisons explain the means and basis for the ranking or comparison.
  • Every figure, table, graph, graphic or photo will be accompanied by at least 1 sentence of explanatory text and a citation.
These are some of the basic criteria of skillful journalism as I understand it.
The Buddha talked about wanting practitioners to be "islands to themselves". Good reporting and many forms of effective communication value the listener or reader being able to examine the issue for themselves. The notion of "we report, you decide" is an aspiration consistent with the Buddha's method of teaching.
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Charbel
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Charbel »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:29 am Ideally we will get our news from the top and centre of the chart.
The top & centre is the last place to get news. Its propaganda.
Pseudobabble
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Pseudobabble »

Top and centre may well only report facts, but they will only report facts which do not clash with the current narrative.

Nor does 'fact based reporting' preclude them from attempting persuasion by means of article placement, article depth and length, photograph content, photograph placement, etc

There is no purely 'fact based reporting' anyway, its totally mythological: when reporting, the reporter (editor, w/e) chooses their topic, interviewees, they choose the words they use to describe things. Are these people 'civil rights demonstrators' or 'seditionists'? Are these people 'death squads' or 'rebels'?
Bundokji
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Bundokji »

I guess the bias is not only related to a particular news channel. It begins with "what makes news what they are", something worthy of special attention or of public interest.

For example, news are information about events, most often with interpretations. Some might argue that the bias begins with the interpretations, not with the information.

But is not the information were carefully selected based on a biased interpretation of reality?

Why flight crashes for instance are often reported in the news, but not car accidents? and how does this biased reporting influenced people's feelings in assessing the risk of using each?
'Too much knowledge leads to scepticism. Early devotees are the likeliest apostates, as early sinners are senile saints.' – Will Durant.
Pseudobabble
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Pseudobabble »

Bundokji wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:34 am
But is not the information were carefully selected based on a biased interpretation of reality?

Why flight crashes for instance are often reported in the news, but not car accidents? and how does this biased reporting influenced people's feelings in assessing the risk of using each?
Exactly. :goodpost:
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Charbel wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:39 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:29 am Ideally we will get our news from the top and centre of the chart.
The top & centre is the last place to get news. Its propaganda.
Your argument is totally unconvincing because it doesn't exist. :tongue:
I think you need to say more.

:popcorn:
Kim
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Pseudobabble wrote: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:36 am Top and centre may well only report facts, but they will only report facts which do not clash with the current narrative.

Nor does 'fact based reporting' preclude them from attempting persuasion by means of article placement, article depth and length, photograph content, photograph placement, etc

There is no purely 'fact based reporting' anyway, its totally mythological: when reporting, the reporter (editor, w/e) chooses their topic, interviewees, they choose the words they use to describe things. Are these people 'civil rights demonstrators' or 'seditionists'? Are these people 'death squads' or 'rebels'?
That's all true, but at least with those top and centre sources there's a reasonable expectation that if they say something happened or someone said something, it did indeed happen or was said. Also that the inevitable bias will be limited and (importantly) predictable.
Also that the events most important to the market they serve will at least be mentioned, if not always given the prominence we might want.

And my questions to fwiw -
Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:53 pm ...
Would you agree that, if we are choosing between the outlets on the chart, top and centre is best?
If not, why not, and where should we look?

:namaste:
Kim
- haven't yet been answered.

:popcorn:
Kim
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