Where should we get our news?

A place to bring a contemplative / Dharmic perspective and opinions to current events, politics and economics.
Kamran
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:10 am

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kamran »

The news media chart is missing the best source of information on current events:

Books.

We should get our news from reading books.

At best, the other "News" gives you a superficial perception of events.

Books give you knowledge.
User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 pm
Location: Northern Indiana

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Here is a site that presents news from left, center, and right perspectives:
https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Dorje Shedrub wrote: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:22 pm Here is a site that presents news from left, center, and right perspectives:
https://www.allsides.com/unbiased-balanced-news

DS
:thanks:
That looks good, especially on US stories.
We might still wonder about how far "right" and "left" they go and where they reckon the "center" might be, although I don't spot any sources way out in :saucer: territory in my brief exploration of the site.

:coffee:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Anything to do with Buddhism would be :saucer: territory on a news website. Just to say that being in :saucer: territory is not necessarily a bad thing.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

An intelligent outsider's view of the US news (and opinion) landscape:
The head-spinning divide between truth and lies in Donald Trump's America

I'm addicted to the news and I broadcast it every day. Taking talk-back calls and burrowing into policy detail to try and nail Australian politicians, I thought I knew what a fractured media landscape looked like.

But then I landed in the US and sitting on a couch, flicking between channels, I was hit by a head-spinning divide.

"The President is a disgusting human being." CLICK
"Democrats don't care about facts." CLICK
"The media is President Trump's cocaine." CLICK
"It's the beginning of the unravelling of democracy." CLICK
"The mainstream media are almost treacherous." CLICK
"The President's performance was nothing short of treasonous." CLICK
"Immigrants are attempting to invade the country." CLICK

I've been trying to decipher politics in Australia for more than 20 years. I've reported from natural disasters and foreign elections, so I thought I was hard to surprise.

But I was shocked that so many Americans, from newsmakers to the news consumers, think the system is broken.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-22/d ... a/10236710

:coffee:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

So much for the BBC and The Guardian


Image

https://evolvepolitics.com/damning-new- ... reporting/


Image
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

True, but it's worth pointing out a few mitigating factors -
The report only analyses coverage of one, very narrow, subject.
That subject is mostly to do with opinions, not facts.
TV news is inherently more likely to include dubious statements because it's often 'live'

That said, the Guardian is a disappointment.

:coffee:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am True, but it's worth pointing out a few mitigating factors -
The report only analyses coverage of one, very narrow, subject.
But that's the example we got here. What I am doing lately is providing illustrations of large, pervasive phenomena in society. But you have to go down to the specifics and it's only the accumulation of examples that allows for the bigger picture to emerge. At least in my opinion


Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am That subject is mostly to do with opinions, not facts.
Every news item has something to do with opinions. Just the mere fact of why they are talking about one issue and not another reveals an editorial choice based on a hierarchy of priorities that has everything to do with opinions and agendas. That's why there are right-leaning and left-leaning news outlet. What I am trying to show is that mainstream media, wherever they lean tend to have a consistent pro-establishment bias, meaning opinions that support the (economical) status quo.


Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am TV news is inherently more likely to include dubious statements because it's often 'live'
Isn't that funny that they always err on the same side though (pro-establishment, fiercely opposed to real lefty ideas like democracy at the work place etc.) ? If those were genuine human nature-based mistakes, they would err on all sides equally, statistically speaking.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

fwiw wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:35 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am True, but it's worth pointing out a few mitigating factors -
The report only analyses coverage of one, very narrow, subject.
But that's the example we got here. What I am doing lately is providing illustrations of large, pervasive phenomena in society. But you have to go down to the specifics and it's only the accumulation of examples that allows for the bigger picture to emerge. At least in my opinion
In principle you are correct, but any conclusions you draw from individual examples must be weak: we really do need lots of examples to show that they do indeed illustrate "large, pervasive phenomena in society" and are not just random olives in a basket of cherries.
Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am That subject is mostly to do with opinions, not facts.
Every news item has something to do with opinions. Just the mere fact of why they are talking about one issue and not another reveals an editorial choice based on a hierarchy of priorities that has everything to do with opinions and agendas. That's why there are right-leaning and left-leaning news outlet. What I am trying to show is that mainstream media, wherever they lean tend to have a consistent pro-establishment bias, meaning opinions that support the (economical) status quo.
Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am TV news is inherently more likely to include dubious statements because it's often 'live'
Isn't that funny that they always err on the same side though (pro-establishment, fiercely opposed to real lefty ideas like democracy at the work place etc.) ? If those were genuine human nature-based mistakes, they would err on all sides equally, statistically speaking.
Also true, but I don't see it as "funny" (either in the sense of humorous or of suspicious) that they always err on the same side, because they are, after all, part of "the establishment" and funded by other parts of it.
But it's not a huge problem, since a consistent error is easy enough to make allowances for: you can tell the time quite accurately by a clock which you know to be five minutes fast.

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:31 am In principle you are correct, but any conclusions you draw from individual examples must be weak: we really do need lots of examples to show that they do indeed illustrate "large, pervasive phenomena in society" and are not just random olives in a basket of cherries.
That's not a problem. That's why I have started threads for that.

Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am But it's not a huge problem, since a consistent error is easy enough to make allowances for: you can tell the time quite accurately by a clock which you know to be five minutes fast.
Unfortunately only a fraction of the population is actually able to do that properly with news, even among educated people like teachers.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

fwiw wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:53 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:09 am But it's not a huge problem, since a consistent error is easy enough to make allowances for: you can tell the time quite accurately by a clock which you know to be five minutes fast.
Unfortunately only a fraction of the population is actually able to do that properly with news, even among educated people like teachers.
There's a book for that - Factfulness https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/348 ... actfulness
Factfulness: The stress-reducing habit of only carrying opinions for which you have strong supporting facts.

When asked simple questions about global trends—what percentage of the world’s population live in poverty; why the world’s population is increasing; how many girls finish school—we systematically get the answers wrong. So wrong that a chimpanzee choosing answers at random will consistently outguess teachers, journalists, Nobel laureates, and investment bankers.

In Factfulness, Professor of International Health and global TED phenomenon Hans Rosling, together with his two long-time collaborators, Anna and Ola, offers a radical new explanation of why this happens. They reveal the ten instincts that distort our perspective—from our tendency to divide the world into two camps (usually some version of us and them) to the way we consume media (where fear rules) to how we perceive progress (believing that most things are getting worse).

Our problem is that we don’t know what we don’t know, and even our guesses are informed by unconscious and predictable biases.

It turns out that the world, for all its imperfections, is in a much better state than we might think. That doesn’t mean there aren’t real concerns. But when we worry about everything all the time instead of embracing a worldview based on facts, we can lose our ability to focus on the things that threaten us most. ...

- but of course the people who need it most are those least likely to read it.

Sigh.

:namaste:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:42 am It turns out that the world, for all its imperfections, is in a much better state than we might think. That doesn’t mean there aren’t real concerns. But when we worry about everything all the time instead of embracing a worldview based on facts, we can lose our ability to focus on the things that threaten us most. ...


:goodpost:

That said I live in a country where I just have to walk to the nearest shops to see on the way examples of extreme poverty even though I live in the richest part of the city. I have extreme poverty right in my face every day and a cruel system that does almost nothing for them while people in the same streets drive huge cars, Mercedes, Maserati, Jaguars etc.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 pm
Location: Northern Indiana

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Topic split: posts about Facebook page deletions moved to Facebook Removes Hundreds of Media Pages

DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:woohoo:

There's a new version of the chart I posted as the OP of this thread - https://www.adfontesmedia.com

:reading:
Kim
alan
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by alan »

If you are in America, MSNBC is the place to go. CNN is also decent. FOX is complete Bullsh*t.
Guardian seems good to me.
Some freaks will get all pissed off about this. This is typical of them. They are not rational people.

It's ok to look at that chart, but, I think better to watch the shows. There is no rationality to some of the American FOX shows. Like Tucker Carlson, for instance. His show is 100% pure propaganda. He is a hateful liar who should burn in Hell.
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

*Facepalm*

Engaged Buddhists recommending cheerleaders for the war industry who fool their marks with anti-Trump catnip. There could hardly be a stronger argument against engaged Buddhism.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

fwiw wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:12 am *Facepalm*

Engaged Buddhists recommending cheerleaders for the war industry who fool their marks with anti-Trump catnip. There could hardly be a stronger argument against engaged Buddhism.
:console:

:redherring:

The actions and opinions of one - or one hundred - Engaged Buddhists are not arguments for or against Engaged Buddhism. (Ditto Christianity, Islam, Bahai'i, Wicca ... )
The most you can say is that action or opinion X of Engaged Buddhists a, b, c ... n is inconsistent with the teachings of Engaged Buddhism. If you wanted to, you could add that wiser Engaged Buddhists should reach out to the straying member of the flock, etc.
For consistency, of course, you would have to say the same about every Christian who took the name of the Lord in vain, every Muslim who had a glass of beer, etc, etc. It could take a while. :tongue:

:coffee:
Kim
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:focus:

I actually visited the thread to recommend The Conversation https://theconversation.com/au as a source of decent quality medium length articles.
If you visit the homepage you will see the range of topics and the qualifications of the writers.

:reading:
Kim
User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by fwiw »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:27 am :redherring:

The actions and opinions of one - or one hundred - Engaged Buddhists are not arguments for or against Engaged Buddhism. (Ditto Christianity, Islam, Bahai'i, Wicca ... )
You have apparently not understood my point. I concede it was not articulated clearly though.

Unenlightened beings are still ignorant. When we are ignorant and we try to help others, we may more often than not end up harming both ourselves and others. I have for example a number of Brazilian friends who are deeply convinced that Bolsonaro is a benevolent savior and that voting for him was almost an action of spiritual dimension.

Some people criticize engaged Buddhism on the grounds that trying to make things better with limited wisdom or sometimes no wisdom only makes them worse. Such attitudes as commending CNN and MSNBC give fodder to their criticism. That's all I am saying.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Where should we get our news?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:thanks:
That does make a lot more sense.

:namaste:
Kim
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ceisiwr, DNS, Presto Kensho, SethRich and 30 guests