2018 NRA Boycott

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egon
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2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Earlier this year a number of American (and one Canadian!) companies cut their business ties with the NRA, citing the fact that the NRA no longer represents their values. This Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NRA_boycott has a list of the companies that severed ties with the NRA and a list of those that haven't. Many of these companies have international presence.

I implore all of you- if you feel that reducing gun violence in America is at all important, and if you feel that supporting a company that facilitates breaking the 1st precept is a problem... Please review the link and try your best to consider these lists when deciding where to spend your money.
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VividAwareness
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by VividAwareness » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:09 pm

egon wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:56 pm
Earlier this year a number of American (and one Canadian!) companies cut their business ties with the NRA, citing the fact that the NRA no longer represents their values. This Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NRA_boycott has a list of the companies that severed ties with the NRA and a list of those that haven't. Many of these companies have international presence.

I implore all of you- if you feel that reducing gun violence in America is at all important, and if you feel that supporting a company that facilitates breaking the 1st precept is a problem... Please review the link and try your best to consider these lists when deciding where to spend your money.
... and don't be shy about letting those companies that support the NRA know why you're not giving them your money. :jedi:
“The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between the way nature works and the way people think.”

- Gregory Bateson, anthropologist, social scientist, linguist, semiotician, and cyberneticist

Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:33 pm

If I was an American I would buy guns. To shoot them. For fun.

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VividAwareness
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by VividAwareness » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:33 pm
If I was an American I would buy guns. To shoot them. For fun.
When I was in the military one day at the gun range one of the commanders saw a bunch of soldiers laughing and joking while doing range exercises. He stormed over, ordered them to attention, and gave them a blistering lecture, loud enough for the whole range to hear, that in no uncertain terms clarified that there's nothing 'fun' about weapons that are designed to kill" ... with a meta instruction to keep one eye on men who enjoy shooting too much.
Last edited by VividAwareness on Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between the way nature works and the way people think.”

- Gregory Bateson, anthropologist, social scientist, linguist, semiotician, and cyberneticist

Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:49 pm

VividAwareness wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:39 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:33 pm
If I was an American I would buy guns. To shoot them. For fun.
When I was in the military one day at the gun range one of the commanders saw a bunch of soldiers laughing and joking while doing range exercises. He stormed over, ordered them to attention, and gave them a blistering lecture, loud enough for the whole range to hear, that in no uncertain terms clarified that there's nothing 'fun' about weapons that are designed to kill" ... with a meta instruction to keep on eye on men who enjoy shooting too much.
You're quite right, such things are not toys. But that is the appeal. You can seriously [mess you] up, let alone other people. Proper handling requires some appreciation of the danger.

[Removed disguised profanity - DS]

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VividAwareness
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by VividAwareness » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:00 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:49 pm
VividAwareness wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:39 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:33 pm
If I was an American I would buy guns. To shoot them. For fun.
When I was in the military one day at the gun range one of the commanders saw a bunch of soldiers laughing and joking while doing range exercises. He stormed over, ordered them to attention, and gave them a blistering lecture, loud enough for the whole range to hear, that in no uncertain terms clarified that there's nothing 'fun' about weapons that are designed to kill" ... with a meta instruction to keep on eye on men who enjoy shooting too much.
You're quite right, such things are not toys. But that is the appeal. You can seriously [mess you] up, let alone other people. Proper handling requires some appreciation of the danger.
Yup. At that time I enjoyed the craft and technique of shooting and became quite good at it, but once I left the military and starting waking up, I took up other equally demanding hobbies that weren't associated with a tool of death.
“The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between the way nature works and the way people think.”

- Gregory Bateson, anthropologist, social scientist, linguist, semiotician, and cyberneticist

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egon
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 am

I've lost all patience with the gun culture here. I cannot in good conscience participate in firearm-friendly activities and I try my damndest to follow that list in the OP. I'm in touch with the state and national legislators that represent me... right now most happen to lean more towards my side on this issue.
Gun rights are another nuanced issue, but I've never been able to run a risk-reward analysis which ended up showing that less access to guns and fewer guns around would have anything except for a positive effect.
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VividAwareness
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by VividAwareness » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:38 am

egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 am
I've lost all patience with the gun culture here. I cannot in good conscience participate in firearm-friendly activities and I try my damndest to follow that list in the OP. I'm in touch with the state and national legislators that represent me... right now most happen to lean more towards my side on this issue.
Gun rights are another nuanced issue, but I've never been able to run a risk-reward analysis which ended up showing that less access to guns and fewer guns around would have anything except for a positive effect.
:goodpost:
“The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between the way nature works and the way people think.”

- Gregory Bateson, anthropologist, social scientist, linguist, semiotician, and cyberneticist

Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:48 pm

egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 am
I've lost all patience with the gun culture here. I cannot in good conscience participate in firearm-friendly activities and I try my damndest to follow that list in the OP. I'm in touch with the state and national legislators that represent me... right now most happen to lean more towards my side on this issue.
Gun rights are another nuanced issue, but I've never been able to run a risk-reward analysis which ended up showing that less access to guns and fewer guns around would have anything except for a positive effect.

Then you aren't accounting for edge-cases. Low probability, high severity events are the ones to watch out for.

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egon
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:48 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 am
I've lost all patience with the gun culture here. I cannot in good conscience participate in firearm-friendly activities and I try my damndest to follow that list in the OP. I'm in touch with the state and national legislators that represent me... right now most happen to lean more towards my side on this issue.
Gun rights are another nuanced issue, but I've never been able to run a risk-reward analysis which ended up showing that less access to guns and fewer guns around would have anything except for a positive effect.

Then you aren't accounting for edge-cases. Low probability, high severity events are the ones to watch out for.
OK I'm curious what you mean. I have zero experience in actually using data in this way.
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Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:30 pm

egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:48 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:58 am
I've lost all patience with the gun culture here. I cannot in good conscience participate in firearm-friendly activities and I try my damndest to follow that list in the OP. I'm in touch with the state and national legislators that represent me... right now most happen to lean more towards my side on this issue.
Gun rights are another nuanced issue, but I've never been able to run a risk-reward analysis which ended up showing that less access to guns and fewer guns around would have anything except for a positive effect.

Then you aren't accounting for edge-cases. Low probability, high severity events are the ones to watch out for.
OK I'm curious what you mean. I have zero experience in actually using data in this way.
There are always very unlikely events with very severe consequences. Take climate change as an example. To my mind, it's completely irrelevant whether or not climate change is 'man-made'. If there is even a 1% chance it is, and a further 1% chance that as a result of our actions, our species will become extinct, we should do something about it.

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egon
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:34 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:30 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:48 pm



Then you aren't accounting for edge-cases. Low probability, high severity events are the ones to watch out for.
OK I'm curious what you mean. I have zero experience in actually using data in this way.
There are always very unlikely events with very severe consequences. Take climate change as an example. To my mind, it's completely irrelevant whether or not climate change is 'man-made'. If there is even a 1% chance it is, and a further 1% chance that as a result of our actions, our species will become extinct, we should do something about it.
I see... so are you recommending that I consider the unlikely events with severe consequences that could be mitigated by maintaining or even loosening the U.S.'s curren't laws regarding firearm ownership and control thereof?
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Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:41 pm

egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:30 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:51 pm


OK I'm curious what you mean. I have zero experience in actually using data in this way.
There are always very unlikely events with very severe consequences. Take climate change as an example. To my mind, it's completely irrelevant whether or not climate change is 'man-made'. If there is even a 1% chance it is, and a further 1% chance that as a result of our actions, our species will become extinct, we should do something about it.
I see... so are you recommending that I consider the unlikely events with severe consequences that could be mitigated by maintaining or even loosening the U.S.'s curren't laws regarding firearm ownership and control thereof?
Well that is why the Constitutional provision is there.. But really the whole thing should be reworked - the principle is to provide the people with a means to resist an unlikely, but possible tyrannical government. But people owing guns won't do that, the US military has the most stupendous amount of firepower - so the 'citizenry bearing arms' is a joke.

But I think that the principle enshrined in the Constitutional amendment, that the people should not just have the right (which is just words), but also the means, to resist a tyranny, no matter how unlikely, is a very good principle.

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egon
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:54 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:41 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:34 pm
Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:30 pm


There are always very unlikely events with very severe consequences. Take climate change as an example. To my mind, it's completely irrelevant whether or not climate change is 'man-made'. If there is even a 1% chance it is, and a further 1% chance that as a result of our actions, our species will become extinct, we should do something about it.
I see... so are you recommending that I consider the unlikely events with severe consequences that could be mitigated by maintaining or even loosening the U.S.'s curren't laws regarding firearm ownership and control thereof?
Well that is why the Constitutional provision is there.. But really the whole thing should be reworked - the principle is to provide the people with a means to resist an unlikely, but possible tyrannical government. But people owing guns won't do that, the US military has the most stupendous amount of firepower - so the 'citizenry bearing arms' is a joke.

But I think that the principle enshrined in the Constitutional amendment, that the people should not just have the right (which is just words), but also the means, to resist a tyranny, no matter how unlikely, is a very good principle.
Gotcha. Yeah, I'm gonna stick with my original analysis of this, although I'm always open to other points of view. As you stated, the citizenry's bearing of arms wouldn't win any wars with the U.S. military, which makes the 2nd amendment obsolete. The only other event that I can imagine an armed citizenry mitigating is possibly the neutralization of a violent person in the act. If I'm not mistaken, the amount of suicidal, aggressive, and accidental injuries/deaths due to firearms vastly outnumber the amount of defensive ones. Is there something I'm not seeing here?
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Pseudobabble
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by Pseudobabble » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:59 pm

egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:54 pm
Is there something I'm not seeing here?
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. :saucer: :D

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egon
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Re: 2018 NRA Boycott

Post by egon » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:15 pm

Pseudobabble wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:59 pm
egon wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:54 pm
Is there something I'm not seeing here?
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. :saucer: :D
You got me there. I hadn't considered the aliens.
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