Drugs are bad, mkay?

Using the Buddha’s teachings to preserve and enhance our well-being, as we engage with the world
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Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by perkele » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:31 pm

So, I just learnt that speed/amphetamine/pep/whatever you call it is total crap. (In fact I have learnt that several times by now. Had to try it once more to let it really sink in, maybe.)
Just fucks my mind, makes me unable to think clearly and get anything useful done.

Just thought I'd share this here, because that is the only useful thought I have at the moment under the influence of this shitty drug, but I have the strong urge to communicate something meaningful to the outside world. Unable to come up with anything much more intelligent at the moment, because my brain is pulp.

Say it with me: "Drugs are bad, mkay?"

Feel free to share and discuss whatever you'd like to in relation to this general topic. Possibly there is more nuance to the whole subject, relating to this or any other intoxicating and mind-altering substance or none in particular. Probably I won't say anything more, though, at least today, because my mind is just fucked.


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Re: Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by justsit » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:55 pm

Having lost about 10 years of my life to drugs and alcohol, I will totally agree with you. All crap. Ups, downs, crank, peruvian marching dust, quaaludes, hash, pot, percocet, valium, vicodin, MDA, acid, thorazine, you name it, I did it. All crap. Heroin scared me so I avoided that, because I knew the first time a needle hit that vein I would love it and end up a goner; and oxycontin and crack weren't around then or I'd have done them too, no doubt. Peyote, psilocybin, and opium were my faves and had the least "crap" factor, but still - nothing more than trying to avoid the pain of reality just as it is. Never works. Never. There's always the crash, Sunday morning comin' down, and then it's even worse. Rinse and repeat. Meh.

Some of us get smart quickly and quit early on. Some of us need to have our metaphorical noses rubbed in it. For your sake, I hope you've learned something important.

And if you fall down seven times, get up eight. :thumb:

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Re: Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:29 pm


I've never gone down such a path and certainly don't intend to start now.

What I will share because it's slightly related, is that every Saturday night I work until about 1:30 am and get to bed around 2:00 am. I prepare for these nights with plenty of caffeine and guarana... supplied by (depending on how I'm feeling, a combination of), sugar free energy drinks, coffee or tablets containing those same ingredients. Sometimes these drinks and tablets might also gingko biloba, ginseng etc. It's all good.

Worth considering if you have some genuine need for "pep" and awakeness, and want none of the ill effects you describe above.

All the best.

"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by DNS » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:20 pm

Good luck with your recovery, hope it goes well.

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Re: Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by DNS » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:29 pm

I know it's not a very "cool" thing to say, but I never experimented. I was around a lot of second hand marijuana smoke during college years, but never took any myself or any other drug. I saw what it did to others and had no interest.

I remember a debate for president several years ago and Joe Lieberman said basically what I wrote above and he lost miserably. He was the only candidate who admitted to not taking any drugs. I sometimes wonder if other candidates were talking of their experimentation just to appear cool.

Although I'm sure that's not the only reason he lost, some do think it is a sort of required prerequisite to being cool or worldly.

Bill Clinton admitted to taking marijuana, but said he didn't inhale. Later when the culture changed, Obama was asked if he inhaled and he said, "yes, I thought that was the point" and the crowd cheered.

However, in the end they all realize there was nothing good in it and you rarely find anyone advocating its use (in their later years).

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Re: Drugs are bad, mkay?

Post by perkele » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:03 am

Thanks for your input.

So, I've come down from the "rush" already, have slept even a bit. There is just some residual "afterglow" still now. And I have, again, accomplished nothing useful, in terms of work, with the "help" of the drug, which would have been my intended purpose for using it. I should have known better by now, after four previous "experiments" with the same result (three within the last two months, the other one 12 years ago).
The effect, according to my experience: Just a pleasent rush at the beginning, an exhilarating feeling of being awake and alert, and feeling able to accomplish a great deal, whatever it may be that I want to accomplish (in my case now some programming work). Until I notice that my cognitive functions, like short-term memory and ability to focus and to make good decisions on what to focus on, are in fact quite drastically impaired. From which point on it is then just a stressful and mostly unpleasent experience for many hours.

So this was the third try within two months, taking successively lower doses, because the previous attempts were already shitty but I somehow still thought it might perhaps be potentially useful but just have been too much. Now I am quite convinced that it is actually not useful at all for my intended purpose of accomplishing focussed and efficient work with a relatively heavy cognitive load.

Another notable effect is quite literal carelessness and numbing of conscience, or pamāda. The bad conscience from being behind in my work and running out of time for fulfilling what I had promised, which had caused me much worry, lack of sleep and the desire to take amphetamine to deal with that in the first place just went "out of focus" during the rush, and even still now in this light "afterglow". It is not that there is not still some anxiety about it left, but just that it is somehow "numbed out", shifted to the background and easily ignored. I just quite literally don't care much at the moment. But judging from previous experience, I am quite sure that the bad feeling of not having accomplished anything will come back in full force quite soon.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and sensible words. I've also tried quite a few kinds of different drugs of a similar range in my life, although mostly "just a little bit" to satisfy my curiosity and then no more. Most between the ages of 17 and 25. Now I'm 35. Nothing I really got "hooked" on besides coffee and tobacco (which is bad enough, I think). But the temptation to try this or that when the opportunity arises still comes up.

I've also had the experience that psilocybin/magic mushrooms had the least "crap" factor of all the different drugs I've tried. I would even go as far as saying that it had a predominantly "wholesome" therapeutic effect for me, not at all "trying to avoid the pain of reality just as it is", but rather just exploring reality from a very different angle, likely to give rise even to appamāda rather than pamāda, because the whole cognitive "apparatus" is so strangely altered in its function at such a fundamental level that one just has to pay attention, at least for the first few times, in my experience. And I think that I might likely judge similarly about other natural psychedelics, like Peyote, if I tried them. Of course there is also a potential to simply "abuse" it for sensual pleasures after having acquired a taste for it, since the colorful trippy perceptions and fuzzy feelings can be quite pleasent.

Opium (and opioids), on the other hand: not good in my experience. The immediate soothing pleasure, artificial "happiness" even, totally independent of whatever really fucked up problems there may be in one's life at the moment, has a very high potential for addiction, in my experience. No "crap" factor maybe in terms of not leaving a hangover, but a quite unavoidable desire or longing to do it again, in my experience.

Thanks for the input, which may help to tie the topic back to Dhamma, exploring which drugs may possibly be not so bad, mkay, not pamādaṭṭhānā (leading to carelessness) in breach of the fifth precept. As explicated above, I do have some genuine need for "pep" and awakeness, without the ill-effects described.
I do, however, already drink so much coffee everyday, and often cola and energy drinks, that increasing the dosage of that would also not help anymore.
Sometimes I have nostalgia for the good old days when I was young and innocent, not having done any illicit drugs yet, not smoking, not addicted to coffee, proud that I would not even take an aspirin for a headache.
Presumably, reducing my regular high caffeine intake, less sugar and some exercise instead of sitting in front of a computer or on a car-seat all day would be most helpful and healthy for me.

Yeah, there's certainly an appearance of being "cool" in some circles when doing drugs. It was certainly "cool" to smoke marihuana, back when I was still in school and I did that. I also found it quite cool. And I find it relatively harmless in comparison with many other "fashionable" (both legal and illegal) or even often medically prescribed substances. I tend to have the opinion that natural drugs should generally not be illegal. But meh, I don't really care that much.
Sad how such "coolness" can play a part even in American presidential campaigns, though.
Thanks for the good wishes. I will definitely never take this crap again.

Amphetamine, so far, is the most crappy drug I've tried. It has everything bad:
1. severely impaired cognitive function while initially giving the illusion of the opposite
2. just burning up the energy of one week in one day, leaving the shittiest of all hangovers, kidney pain and bad sleep for many days
3. despite these obvious negative effects still easily leaving the desire to try it again.

This was really just dumb. Now it's already almost 6:00 in the morning here. The coming two nights I'm doing 12-hour night-shifts, driving taxi. I have not done any programming work, which I wanted to have finished in large parts, at the latest, today. I will not be able to accomplish anything the next days either. Fuck this.

I really just should not have taken on this small, not even lucrative by any stretch, programming job. I had wanted to decline, being satisfied with my regular income from taxi-driving at the moment to get by, and with the freedom to use my brain for whatever I find meaningful in my free time or while just sitting and waiting in the car during my quite relaxed menial job. Just accepted it to satisfy certain perceptions, appearances. Ideas of others what would be good for me. So that they stop pestering me.
Really fucking stupid.

The Metta Sutta says
Snp 1.08 wrote: This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.

// ... //
Yeah, I would like to be unburdend with duties and relatively frugal in my ways. Then I wouldn't even come to the idea to try amphetamines in the hopes of getting shit done. I think.

Amphetamine makes talkative. Thanks for listening to my bullshit.

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