Dangers of Marijuana

A discussion on all aspects of Engaged Buddhism
WatRatPanyo
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by WatRatPanyo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:56 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:45 pm
used as directed, lower dose opioids get you high less than pot does, same for benzos, the potential for abuse is real but that involves higher dose and doubling up on pills, fact is opioids are much more effective at treating pain than pot is, pot only works for lower level pain, and a low dose of opioids would treat that with fewer side effects
It seems to me you have had done personal issues with an addiction to marijuana early in life.

While this may of been severe for you it does not neccasarily represent a mature view point of the cannabis plant.

It is simply a plant after all.

More to the point it is a very important and serious medicine for many people across the world.

Specifically for people with seizure disorders, people with HIV, people with cancer, people with PTSD the list goes on.

While you personally have an issue with people getting "high" this does not represent a medical or in my opinion experienced point of view when it comes to being a human being and taking in any substances.

Does sugar produce a high? Yes.

Does caffeine produce a high? Yes.

Does alcahol produce a high? Yes.

The list goes on and on.

When it comes to weed its not anywhere near the danger of opioids when it comes to pain management or long term use.

I personally have no problem with lay people using marijuana recreationally.

Would I reccomend it for everyone and everyone? Certainly not.

Can it be the focus of addiction? Yes it certainly can.

Much like any other substance.

Anyways.

Metta in your direction and blessings.


-Bhikku Rob

Cinnabar
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Cinnabar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:29 pm

The science just doesn't support that the medical cannabis movement is a political ploy to be permissive about marijuana as a psychoactive.

A subsystem of the body is the endocannabinoid system or ECS. It's a network of receptors in the brain and peripheral nervous system that has receptors for a certain class of chemical. They're called "endocannabinoids" because they are made in our bodies and resemble compounds found in cannabis in both structure and function. This ECS modulates a wide range of bodily functions. Appetite, locomotion, reproduction, temperature regulation, immune and stress response. And yes, euphoria.

That's just how our bodies work.

It's not a minor thing. Or an obscure thing. Pharmacologists design drugs based on these compounds and their receptors.

And yes. Things we inhale and ingest effect the ECS. That includes marijuana, and yes, that gets us baked. But a wide range of things effect the ECS. Echinacea's immune supporting function comes from it's impact on the ECS. The benefits of tea are in part due to its effect on the ECS.

Cannabis has 100+ cannabinoids, and only isomers of one of them, THC, gets you baked. The other 100+ include cannabinoids with profound effects on the ECS.

The science also doesn't support that you need to get baked to get these effects. It's possible to cultivate cannabis to minimize THC, and extract the other cannabinoids to eliminate THC. And sure, it's possible to use cannabis as found to get fully baked while getting its medicinal properties. That is a personal choice.

Sure. Opioids are better for treating pain. They target receptors specific for analgesia. Boom.

But if your problem is something like seizures, central tremor, or Parkinsonian tremor-- then cannabidiol, one of many phytocannabinoids, is a miracle.

WatRatPanyo
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by WatRatPanyo » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:46 pm

Opioids also have a much higher addiction and dependancy factor. Both mentally and physically.

The amount of people that have become IV heroin users from starting with prescription pill opioids is astounding.

It's a Nationwide epidemic here in the US.

Not to count the many people physically and mentally addicted to their pain medication.

The only reason cannabis was made illegal is because of buisness interests. Back then it was the lumber industry.

Now it's the pharmaceutical industry fighting against it's legalization.
Money money money

chownah
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by chownah » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:21 am

Addiction is more a factor of the individual person and not of the drug....put another way....there are people who incline towards addiction and those are the ones who become addicted and have a difficult time quiting....evidence of this is that millions of people in the usa have taken highly addictive drugs as part of their therapy and recovery process and yet only a tiny fraction of them become addicted or have a difficult time quitting their medications when no longer needed.

This does not mean that marijuana is not dangerous.....but it does mean that its dangers are more or less limited to some but not all people. When I talk about danger here I mean the worldly view of danger i.e. the danger of becoming dependent on the drug. It should be noted that there is also the danger it poses for progress along the path to awakening i.e. heedlessness and delight.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:35 am

There are actually a whole lot more people addicted to pot and alcohol than opioids, but opioid addiction is deadlier.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

narhwal90
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by narhwal90 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:48 pm

I wonder about the compulsion that the marijuana addict experiences vs the opiod addict; the forms it takes, how quickly it ramps up. I've heard self-described marijuana addicts talk about it; comfort from the anxiety that only consuming it will ease, concern about supply, the gradual decrease of euphoria until it takes consumption to just feel normal and then that even goes way and its a matter of feeling inescapably bad or feeling worse than that with no way out- all that stuff is present but I don't know how powerfully. Is the marijuana addict compelled to kill/rob/steal to fund the habit or do they mostly persist in misery- perhaps being cheaper the addiction is easier to support for much longer so the end game is not as often experienced.

Clearly the marijuana overdose is not as dramatic as the opiod so that end of the addiction might be under-detected.

WatRatPanyo
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by WatRatPanyo » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:36 am

narhwal90 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:48 pm
I wonder about the compulsion that the marijuana addict experiences vs the opiod addict; the forms it takes, how quickly it ramps up. I've heard self-described marijuana addicts talk about it; comfort from the anxiety that only consuming it will ease, concern about supply, the gradual decrease of euphoria until it takes consumption to just feel normal and then that even goes way and its a matter of feeling inescapably bad or feeling worse than that with no way out- all that stuff is present but I don't know how powerfully. Is the marijuana addict compelled to kill/rob/steal to fund the habit or do they mostly persist in misery- perhaps being cheaper the addiction is easier to support for much longer so the end game is not as often experienced.

Clearly the marijuana overdose is not as dramatic as the opiod so that end of the addiction might be under-detected.

Also important to remember that marijuana does not cause a physical dependancy in the way that opioids, amphetamines, and SSRIs etc cause.

In a country where we prescribe millions of children Meth Amphetamines and encourage them to take them for life all while becoming physically and mentally addicted to them I think the last thing we need to be worrying about is cannabis.

No other country in the world is prescribing amphetamines to children at the rate the US is. Nowhere even close.

Cinnabar
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Cinnabar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:11 pm

... amd then there are those who use marijuana and don't get intoxicated because there is no or minimal THC in what they use.

narhwal90
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by narhwal90 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:02 pm

WatRatPanyo wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:36 am
narhwal90 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:48 pm
I wonder about the compulsion that the marijuana addict experiences vs the opiod addict; the forms it takes, how quickly it ramps up. I've heard self-described marijuana addicts talk about it; comfort from the anxiety that only consuming it will ease, concern about supply, the gradual decrease of euphoria until it takes consumption to just feel normal and then that even goes way and its a matter of feeling inescapably bad or feeling worse than that with no way out- all that stuff is present but I don't know how powerfully. Is the marijuana addict compelled to kill/rob/steal to fund the habit or do they mostly persist in misery- perhaps being cheaper the addiction is easier to support for much longer so the end game is not as often experienced.

Clearly the marijuana overdose is not as dramatic as the opiod so that end of the addiction might be under-detected.

Also important to remember that marijuana does not cause a physical dependancy in the way that opioids, amphetamines, and SSRIs etc cause.

In a country where we prescribe millions of children Meth Amphetamines and encourage them to take them for life all while becoming physically and mentally addicted to them I think the last thing we need to be worrying about is cannabis.

No other country in the world is prescribing amphetamines to children at the rate the US is. Nowhere even close.

The tendency to prescribe stuff like that is appalling. My daughter was having severe anxiety problems at 9yrs old, to the point where we consulted a psychiatrist, after a 10 minute discussion she went right for xanax- no alternatives offered, nothing else to try. We declined and ended up trying indoor rockclimbing which my daughter loved and over the course of a few months nearly completely removed her anxiety issues. According to my daughter she decided she had no time for anxiety with the challenge & reward of the wall, her examples where & are the tremendously fit ladies climbing the impossible routes seemingly just with their fingertips.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:25 pm

Pot is addictive as hell, one of the definitions of addiction is it takes more and more of the drug to get you high, this is very true of pot, a stoner has to smoke much more to get high.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Cinnabar
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Cinnabar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:39 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:25 pm
Pot is addictive as hell, one of the definitions of addiction is it takes more and more of the drug to get you high, this is very true of pot, a stoner has to smoke much more to get high.
A person with cancer or HIV using cannabis for THC to fight cachexia and emesis-- really doesn't have to worry about addiction.

If we say they do- that narrative is about us, not them.

justsit
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by justsit » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:54 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:25 pm
Pot is addictive as hell, one of the definitions of addiction is it takes more and more of the drug to get you high, this is very true of pot, a stoner has to smoke much more to get high.
It may be indeed be as "addictive as hell" for some, but is not nearly as addictive as some other drugs.

"... in a large-scale survey published in 1994 epidemiologist James Anthony, then at the National Institute on Drug Abuse, and his colleagues asked more than 8,000 people between the ages of 15 and 64 about their use of marijuana and other drugs. The researchers found that of those who had tried marijuana at least once, about 9 percent eventually fit a diagnosis of cannabis dependence. The corresponding figure for alcohol was 15 percent; for cocaine, 17 percent; for heroin, 23 percent; and for nicotine, 32 percent. So although marijuana may be addictive for some, 91 percent of those who try it do not get hooked. Further, marijuana is less addictive than many other legal and illegal drugs." https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... about-pot/. Granted, this study was done a while ago, but it does highlight the lower addictive potential of pot.

Personal anecdotal evidence, fwiw - I was a teenager in the 60's and into the 70's, spent a lot of time in the drug culture. I eventually kicked alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, cocaine, uppers and downers. No contest, the worst of the lot to get off of was nicotine, which it is now known is as addictive as heroin. Second was cocaine. Marijuana was never my drug of choice; when I smoked too much I got paranoid, so it was easy to quit. I never tried heroin because I knew once that needle hit a vein, I'd be done for. I'm now drug and alcohol free since 1984, and am damned lucky to even be here. Better just to stay away from all that crap.

Cinnabar
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Cinnabar » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:13 am

... full disclosure...

... the reason i keep bringing this question back to medicinal uses of cannabis-- a 2017 survey of cannabis consumers showed that 18% used cannabis solely for medical reasons and another 66% used it for a combination of medicinal and medical reasons. So some 80% of respondents claim some form of medical usage of the plant.

the survey was disseminated through various cannabis organizations to states where cannabis was both legal and illegal. the majority of respondents were from states where cannabis was legalized.

the typical cannabis user is probably a woman (women outnumber men 3:2)... who has a combined household income of less than $50K, has probably used for 10 years or more, consumes daily-- but who spends $50-100 a month on so on it. they prefer organic or non-gmo cannabis. they prefer smoking, but like brownies if they do edibles-- and if they do edibles, they consume 10-20 mg of THC at a shot on average. for every one person who gets their cannabis from a store, two get it illegally.

not exactly requiem for a dream.

//and this doesn't include users of trace THC preparations//

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:53 pm

Here are a few facts about the Australian experience of medicinal cannabis, with human-interest stories of how it affects typical patients.
These people face excruciating pain daily, but medicinal cannabis makes life bearable

...accessing alternatives such as medicinal cannabis had been difficult until the Federal Government relaxed restrictions in March 2018.

New data obtained by the ABC revealed just how popular the controversial treatment had become, with more than 3,100 medicinal cannabis scripts approved by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) from March to January 2019.

Those patients had a range of conditions, including nerve pain, anorexia, chemotherapy-induced nausea and vomiting and palliative care...
:reading: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-19/ ... f/10806696

:coffee:
Kim

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:03 pm

Some good points in this ABC article, especially the part about how only 1 in 24 benefited from pain relief.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019 ... s/10823036
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:13 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:03 pm
Some good points in this ABC article, especially the part about how only 1 in 24 benefited from pain relief.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2019 ... s/10823036
... and how the figures were far better for other uses, e.g.epilepsy.

:coffee:
Kim

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Dangers of Marijuana

Post by lyndon taylor » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:47 pm

Which was my point all along, marijuana works for some limited conditions but is not a panacea for whatever ails you.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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