This forum could become stagnant...

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egon
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This forum could become stagnant...

Post by egon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:53 pm

...if threads here continue to turn into arguments about HOW someone posts. I feel this could be a valuable place for important discussions, but the threads are too often turning into prideful defensiveness of ideas and communication. I'm sure I'll get sick of it and drop off eventually. It's just bad mojo. I work with lawyers. I don't need that junk here.

I don't know where else to put these gripes, or how to format them properly. This is an unabashed complaint thread. Feel free to move along.

- This isn't a forensics competition. We're not in high school hoping to win a debate trophy. If you notice what you consider to be a flaw in someone's reasoning, try this: be nice about it. Don't be a snarky, pedantic, sarcastic know-it-all. If people don't like you they'll revel in the opportunity to prove you wrong, and are far less likely to concede to your point of view no matter how sound it is. If that's even what you want, that is. I really wish there was less arguing for sport in here.

- quoting yourself is pompous. Again, not nice. It's like saying, "Hey, stupid! Look what I just wrote up here! Are you too stupid to have seen it?" Reality check: if someone didn't understand what you said or consider it to be important enough to consider, blame yourself.

- If your message isn't understood or is challenged, maybe it hasn't been communicated well. Or maybe you're actually wrong!! Whaaat??? Yes. It's true.

- If someone asks you to provide more information to support your claim, consider this: a refusal to do so sends the message that you don't consider their understanding your message to be worth your time. You posted it. Back it up if you want it to be understood or believed. Otherwise, don't post, or don't expect people to go around googling something that 5 minutes ago they probably didn't care about in the first place.

- We haven't known each other very long. Try being friendly instead of a blowhard or a subversive bubble burster.

- I may not know the suttas like the rest of you, but I'm pretty sure that we're all supposed to be practicing patience, non-reactivity, plain speech, and speech which is not ego-driven. Remember this when you're cracking your knuckles in preparation to drop the hammer of a sick intellectual burn on the person who had the gall to challenge you, or made a logical fallacy, or did some other innocuous thing that you're about to waste energy on.
_________________________________
"Be excellent to each other" -Bill & Ted

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VividAwareness
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by VividAwareness » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 pm

egon wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:53 pm
We haven't known each other very long
Quite a number of us have known each other for 10-15 years ... and like family, there are recurring issues. Some of what you point at is likely the result of that familiarity and of a generous tolerance for individual quirkiness as a result of it. Some of it is important bickering designed to illuminate. Some of it may be that someone is having a bad day and acting very human. Some of it is likely because we don't understand some bit of context or we can't see outside our own conceptual bubble. Some of it is because someone is assholey or confused or conditioned in some other way ... and that's ok too ... all the more for us to practice with. It all passes. All things do. And the mods clean up whatever they need to to keep the TOS intact.

It might be a good idea to get to know the people and forum better before turning on 'scorch' mode. This particular forum is a mild, generally friendly, pretty chill and orderly place compared to some Dharma forums (it might be a good thing you missed the esangha.com phenomenon) ... but a forum, by its nature and purpose, isn't a 'safe space' so it's a good idea to come here prepared to let it go when things get messy, which they inevitably will because 'samsara' is a messy deluded place where people always think they know ...

Remember, you have the option to "ignore" anyone here (it's a profile setting). I ignore a couple of folks here ... keeps the blood pressure down ... as I'm sure some ignore my pedantic rambling and endless litany of inconvenient realities here in the very uncertain 21st century.

:toast:
“The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between the way nature works and the way people think.”

- Gregory Bateson, anthropologist, social scientist, linguist, semiotician, and cyberneticist

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Ayu
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Ayu » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:21 pm

I tend to ignore aspects of forums that drain my energy. Like this everthing becomes bearable, I don't have to leave and I can focus on the interesting aspects of the forum.

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egon
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by egon » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:05 pm

Thanks for the reset folks, it appears I needed it! :thanks:
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:54 pm

egon wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:05 pm
Thanks for the reset folks, it appears I needed it! :thanks:
Some of us needed your OP, too. :thumb:
All the points you made are valid and all are recurrent problems.

:meditate:
Kim

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:00 pm

VividAwareness wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 pm
... And the mods clean up whatever they need to to keep the TOS intact. ...
And the mods are pathetically grateful when they don't have to clean up, so please play nice.

:smile:
Kim

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KathyLauren
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by KathyLauren » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:01 am

egon wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:53 pm
- If someone asks you to provide more information to support your claim, consider this: a refusal to do so sends the message that you don't consider their understanding your message to be worth your time. You posted it. Back it up if you want it to be understood or believed.
VividAwareness wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:49 pm
it's a good idea to come here prepared to let it go when things get messy,
And sometimes, not providing more information when requested is a case of someone letting go because it is getting messy.

Om mani padme hum
Kathy

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egon
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by egon » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:00 pm

IMO the onus of effective communication belongs to the speaker moreso than the audience, as long as the speaker actually wishes to be understood.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:49 am

Mod note: two disruptive and unhelpful posts removed.
:jedi:

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:56 am

egon wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:00 pm
IMO the onus of effective communication belongs to the speaker moreso than the audience, as long as the speaker actually wishes to be understood.
I think so too.
Also, I have said several times in different ways that the writer always needs to consider the likely diversity of their potential readers and adjust their language accordingly.
I may write that into the TOS or guidelines as something we would like to see but (of course) can't enforce.

:juggling:
Kim

chownah
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by chownah » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:55 am

I hope this is on topic:
I think the forum might/will/has become stagnant because there is not enough diversity of opinion to support a discussion. Mostly we are all just preaching to the choir. For people not familiar with this coloquialism it means that the audience for our posts are people who are already convinced of the truth of our message.

Like egon posted in the BLTJQ issues thread....something about there is the issue of queer marriages but everyone here thinks they are just fine so what's to discuss? Seems like it is pretty much the same with just about all issues.

This forum is almost the perfect safe place and a safe place is a place where all there is is self congratulatory murmurs and a collage of social action selfies. Is that this forums future?

Seems there is more interest in finding ways to sanitize the discussion than there is in any actual topics or issues.
chownah

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lyndon taylor
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:04 am

So you're saying you miss the extremist alt right input of the old forum, I'm glad to see it gone, though I'm sure it will pop up eventually.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:14 am

chownah wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:55 am
I hope this is on topic:
I think the forum might/will/has become stagnant because there is not enough diversity of opinion to support a discussion. Mostly we are all just preaching to the choir. For people not familiar with this coloquialism it means that the audience for our posts are people who are already convinced of the truth of our message.

Like egon posted in the BLTJQ issues thread....something about there is the issue of queer marriages but everyone here thinks they are just fine so what's to discuss? Seems like it is pretty much the same with just about all issues.

This forum is almost the perfect safe place and a safe place is a place where all there is is self congratulatory murmurs and a collage of social action selfies. Is that this forums future?

Seems there is more interest in finding ways to sanitize the discussion than there is in any actual topics or issues.
chownah
That's a good point but it's early days yet - the forum is only three weeks old.
The people who set it up (mainly David and Paul) did a good job but couldn't predict how it would develop. The first week was a bit of a scramble for the admin team, frankly, and now we're going round tweaking settings and so on, so that they match more closely to what we are actually talking about.
After that (or while we're doing it - no need for anyone to wait) I hope that we can move towards constructive sharing of ideas and resources. I think that will become the most useful function of the forum, in fact, because we're certainly not going to march together down the streets of any city in the world, are we?
Also - invite your friends to join us!
We've only got about 50 members and about a third of that number haven't posted at all. We need more people to make it more diverse and more interesting.

:namaste:
Kim

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:18 pm

*bump*
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:14 am
... Invite your friends to join us!
We've only got about 50 members and about a third of that number haven't posted at all. We need more people to make it more diverse and more interesting.

:namaste:
Kim
Apart from that, I think we're travelling pretty well.

:thumb:
Kim

Pseudobabble
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Pseudobabble » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:45 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:04 am
So you're saying you miss the extremist alt right input of the old forum, I'm glad to see it gone, though I'm sure it will pop up eventually.
Oh Lyndon. So glad to see your black and white thinking again.

No_Mind
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by No_Mind » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:51 pm

This forum could become stagnant/is stagnant because probably most don't quite understand what Engaged Buddhism means (at least I don't).

I thought this would be new home of Lounge and News and Current Events but very few of the members of DWT joined here.

:namaste:

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lyndon taylor
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:58 pm

There's no advertising on the old forum directing to this forum that I know of.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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DNS
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by DNS » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:07 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:58 pm
There's no advertising on the old forum directing to this forum that I know of.
On the front home page, scroll to the bottom, there are links to all the other DW forums, not the very bottom of the page links, but also there is a separate locked sub-forum of links.

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lyndon taylor
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:35 pm

that clearly hasn't been sufficient, given as hardly anyone normally goes to that page. I suggest until everyone knows about this site, a locked thread at the top of the DWT topic feed.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: This forum could become stagnant...

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:20 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:35 pm
that clearly hasn't been sufficient, given as hardly anyone normally goes to that page. I suggest until everyone knows about this site, a locked thread at the top of the DWT topic feed.
Good thought - that might be helpful.
On the other hand, both DWT and DWM have also been pretty quiet in the last month, which is most of the time DWE has been up and running.

:juggling:
Kim

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