Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Applying the Dharma to social justice issues – race, religion, sexuality and identity
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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:28 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:11 am
Cultural Marxism will only care about skin colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality etc.
I am afraid you are talking of a population of "cultural marxists" that is extremely low (I have never met any one of them in my entire life), and claim they represent a major threat to society.

Because, given how you treat the rest of my post as irrelevant, anyone who tackles the issues of "skin colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality etc." through an economic angle would surely not be included in your characterization of "cultural marxists" whereas pretty much everyone who "agitates" skin colour, race or gender issues actually does use economic arguments.
... in my opinion

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SethRich
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:32 am

Greetings fwiw,

You seem to be conflating people and the ideologies they old.

When I speak about Cultural Marxism, I am speaking about the ideology. Not about whether there are "good" or "bad" Cultural Marxists.

Similarly, if I were to discuss libertarianism, I would be speaking about the ideology. Not about whether there are "good" or "bad" libertarians.

Similarly, if I were to discuss Bolshevism, I would be speaking about the ideology. Not about whether there are "good" or "bad" Bolsheviks.

As they say, great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

I hope that provides edification.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:39 am

Indeed you are pointing out I was talking past you without fully grasping your argument. I'll re-read the above and reassess
... in my opinion

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 am

Ok so let me start over at the beginning.

Say someone goes to a woman and points out to her the gender pay gap. Then tells her that for that reason she is being oppressed as a woman, based on gender.

Is this person engaging in cultural marxism, according to you?
... in my opinion

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:58 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:27 am
they're the people being persecuted.
A certain percentage of their land will be taken over by the government without compensation. After they inherited an ill-acquired property, which they will mostly be allowed to keep.

There are people going through much worse in the world Mr Dutton doesn't seem to care that much for.

This double standard is indeed a problem.

You can disagree all you want.
... in my opinion

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SethRich
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:00 am

Greetings,
Is this person engaging in cultural marxism, according to you?
Yes, her salary (whatever it is, she could be a millionaire for all your hypothetical Cultural Marxist knows) could be attributable to a great many factors and it would be presumptuous and prejudiced to put it down to gender.

The thing is, serious economists (i.e. those "not in the pay" of Cultural Marxists) have essentially found that when you factor in lifestyle choices etc., there is no gender pay gap. Other than education, what drives the differential between people's earning potential is usually factors like hours worked, occupations preferred, and any time taken out of workforce for child rearing. Because it is most common for mothers to do less paid work than fathers, for the overall good of the family, they have less formal work experience, on average.

Of course, calm, logical reason and happy families that make their own decisions in their family's best interests are not particularly palatable to the emotional agenda of Cultural Marxism, which requires a basis for outrage and uprising.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:08 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:00 am
Is this person engaging in cultural marxism, according to you?
Yes, her salary (whatever it is, she could be a millionaire for all your hypothetical Cultural Marxist knows) could be attributable to a great many factors and it would be presumptuous and prejudiced to put it down to gender. The thing is, serious economists (i.e. those "not in the pay" of Cultural Marxists) have essentially found that when you factor in lifestyle choices etc., there is no gender pay gap.
Of course, conveniently finding ways to deny the problem even exists (without even showing how) makes justifying all the rest that much easier
... in my opinion

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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:17 am

Greetings,
fwiw wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:08 am
Of course, finding ways to deny the problem even exists (without even showing how) makes justifying all the rest that much easier
Justifying what? It sounds like some sort of conspiracy to suggest that the job market doesn't factor in things like work experience, education, hours worked, career pathways etc. It seems even more conspiratorial to suggest that companies will willingly offer equally capable male candidates x% more than a woman, when (in many careers) this biological factor has no relevance to their productive potential.

Sounds like the Cultural Marxists have gotten to you if you think the labour market can't do its job. That's one of the beauties of the market, unlike Cultural Marxists, it doesn't discriminate.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:31 am

I will say that if indeed we can establish that there is no population anywhere in the world that is being oppressed on the basis of skin colour, race, gender, religion, or sexuality, then you will be proven 100% right.

Not till then
... in my opinion

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SethRich
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:53 am

Greetings,

I am against oppression too.

:hug:

I just believe that the market has a demonstrably better track record than Marxism (of whatever variant, including Socialism, Communism etc.) of providing prosperity, liberty, law and order, and freedom from oppression.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:05 am

The market allocates scarce goods, among which the ones that are critical for staying or becoming rich in the future, to those who are already the richest. Left to its own device, it creates massive inequality, which is socially destructive. I currently live in South Africa, I am at the heart of this problem every day.
... in my opinion

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SethRich
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:07 am

Greetings,

You have my sympathies. Perhaps resources wouldn't be so scarce if farmers weren't killed, tortured, or run off their land due to Cultural Marxism?

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:24 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:07 am
Greetings,

You have my sympathies. Perhaps resources wouldn't be so scarce if farmers weren't killed, tortured, or run off their land?

Kind regards.

:candle:
Yes, and that's what "the market" has been doing in many countries in Africa


Here is a flipside example of anti-identity-politics voices going overboard in their crusade to the point of absurdity

... in my opinion

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:04 pm

Just for a quick recap, let me sum up Paul's argument.

Paul claims Cultural marxism is when someone says that there exist people on Earth who are being oppressed on the basis of economic "class", religion, or immutable attributes like gender, sexuality, race etc. He claims this is a bad thing because it is divisive, unproductive, socially corrosive and destructive.

But when it is shown that right-wing influencers like Charlie Kirk or Trump junior engage in extreme forms of divisive speech, it's not their personal responsibility but rather the fault of... cultural marxism again, of course

Then Paul claims cultural marxists don't care about the murder rate in Chicago

I point out to him that there are certainly associations relying on what he calls cultural marxism who advocate for an actual solution, which is tackling the issue of poverty.

Paul claims it's false because these people deal with economic issues, whereas, as he now claims, "Cultural Marxism will only care about skin colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality etc." that is, leaving out economical considerations, contrary to what he said earlier (he did mention initially 'economic "class"' as a center of focus for cultural marxism, see above).

When asking him what happens when the economic angle gets mixed up with the other ones, like in the example of gender pay gap, Paul goes on to (not) demonstrate there is no oppression to speak of to begin with


That's a lot of mental gymnastics
... in my opinion

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SethRich
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by SethRich » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:23 pm

Greetings,

Total representation. Sick really that you felt the need to compose that tripe. If you had any human decency you would delete that perverted reinterpretation or at least compile it out of actual quotes, not blatant misrepresentions and lies.

If people do not understand my words, that's fine. If people disagree with my words, that's fine... but to twist and contort them into strawmen and then try to make grandiose conclusions based upon this litany of strawmen is rather pathetic, it must be said.

Please desist from engaging further...as you clearly cannot do so in good faith.

:candle:
Last edited by SethRich on Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Fri Nov 01, 2019 3:03 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:23 pm
Greetings,

Total representation. Sick really that you felt the need to compose that tripe. If you had any human decency you would delete that perverted reinterpretation or at least compile it out of actual quotes, not blatant misrepresentions and lies.

Please desist from engaging further...as you clearly cannot do so in good faith.

:candle:
:rofl:

Hi Paul, how are you today? Let me oblige you so everyone can clearly see how your extreme language (accusing me of having no "human decency", characterizing my quotes as a "perverted reinterpretation" and "blatant misrepresentions and lies") is what you do when it's shown you have lost an argument by lack of consistency.



Paul claims Cultural marxism is when someone says that there exist people on Earth who are being oppressed on the basis of economic "class", religion, or immutable attributes like gender, sexuality, race etc. He claims this is a bad thing because it is divisive, unproductive, socially corrosive and destructive.
After all, what do you most strongly identify with?... your economic "class", your religion, or immutable attributes like gender, sexuality, race etc. Which fuels more emotion and drive? Convince people that they're being "oppressed" based on one of these factors, by people who are different to them, and Marxism remains alive and kicking.

That pivot is no more a "conspiracy" than (original) Marxism itself... it's just a framework, a world-view, and an evolution upon the initial model... and frankly, it's one that I consider to be divisive, unproductive, socially corrosive and destructive

But when it is shown that right-wing influencers like Charlie Kirk or Trump junior engage in extreme forms of divisive speech, it's not their personal responsibility but rather the fault of... cultural marxism again, of course
I think it's the left that's being radicalized towards Cultural Marxism, and the right that caves into it for fear of being branded racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic etc.

Then Paul claims cultural marxists don't care about the murder rate in Chicago
Similarly, you can safely assume that I believe the problem of black-on-black crime is downplayed by Cultural Marxists, because it doesn't fit their ideological narrative. Compare the number of deaths via "mass shootings" to daily gun crime in Chicago, for example - where are the deaths, and where is the attention?

I point out to him that there are certainly associations relying on what he calls cultural marxism who advocate for an actual solution, which is tackling the issue of poverty.

Paul claims it's false because these people deal with economic issues, whereas, as he now claims, "Cultural Marxism will only care about skin colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality etc." that is, leaving out economical considerations, contrary to what he said earlier (he did mention initially 'economic "class"' as a center of focus for cultural marxism, see above).
Wrong. Traditional Marxists perhaps, because it was at least based upon economic factors and the means of production... Cultural Marxism will only care about skin colour, race, gender, religion, sexuality etc. and these are diversions and divisions which serve only to perpetuate poverty through diminshed social cohesion.

When asking him what happens when the economic angle gets mixed up with the other ones, like in the example of gender pay gap, Paul goes on to (not) demonstrate there is no oppression to speak of to begin with
The thing is, serious economists (i.e. those "not in the pay" of Cultural Marxists) have essentially found that when you factor in lifestyle choices etc., there is no gender pay gap.

That's a lot of mental gymnastics
And now on top of that, nonsensical over-the-top personal attacks.

Have a nice day, regardless
... in my opinion

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fwiw
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Re: Cultural marxism : "literal Nazi propaganda" ?

Post by fwiw » Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:43 am

Here is one of the leading deniers of oppression who thinks there is no limit to how much she can gaslight her own people because her audience is in the alt-right, exposed

Screenshot_2019-11-12_07-37-50.png
Screenshot_2019-11-12_07-37-50.png (198.7 KiB) Viewed 47 times

Racist threats case filed by Stamford High student [Candace Owens] settled for $37,500
https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/ ... 107476.php
The exact amount the Board of Education paid the family of Candace Owens, now an 18-year-old Stamford High graduate, was made public yesterday after The Advocate filed a Freedom of Information request last week.

...

Kopek, now 18, was a former friend and classmate of Owens. Two days before the phone incident, they had a shouting match during class. School officials suspended Kopek for that but would not discipline him and the other boys for an incident committed off school grounds unless the police made an arrest, which drew criticism from the state National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

Owens left school for six weeks, saying it was traumatic to attend with the alleged callers. She returned after Kopek was arrested in late March. Another teen was arrested later that spring. School officials would not say whether they disciplined Kopek after the arrest.

The lawsuit said the decision to delay suspensions amounted to a failure to protect Owens. The suit accused the city of violating the federal Title IX rule banning discrimination in schools that receive federal funding. The school system has "continued to do nothing to protect Ms. Owens from repeated harassment and intimidation by the young men and their friends," the suit stated.
... in my opinion

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