Climate change - politics and activism

Applying the Dharma for the preservation of planet Earth and its inhabitants
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 pm

SethRich wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:11 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:56 am
If you don't think that's reasonable, you have far more free time in your life than I have in mine.
Interesting how you have more than 5 minutes to protest why you cannot watch a 5 minute video.

Kind regards.

:candle:
Ah, but 5 minutes spent on gardening, on protesting, on meditating, on yoga, on cooking dinner - even on the toilet :toilet: is 5 minutes productively spent.

:coffee:
Kim

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:57 pm

Greetings,
Kim's ABC wrote:The gloves are off: 'predatory' climate deniers are a threat to our children
Frankly, I think it is the climate alarmists who constitute the "immediate threat to our children".

Due to climate alarmism, children are becoming increasingly anxious, scared, terrified, depressed, bitter and angry.

See:
Climate change poses mental health risks to children and teens

Also:
- ‘Climate Grief’: Fears About The Planet’s Future Weigh On Americans’ Mental Health
- Feeling Anxious About Climate Change? Therapists Say You’re Not Alone
- 'Climate grief': The growing emotional toll of climate change

The dukkha has become so intense for some people, that guides such as the following PDF from psychology.com.au give guidance on "Coping With Climate Change Distress"

(To be continued, because admin have put a block on how many links can be provided in one post...)
Last edited by SethRich on Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:57 pm

(continued)....

I can relate to how they feel because I remember, as an impressionable youngster, believing that mankind was as good as doomed after I saw this video about AIDS...



The following blog, updated yesterday, gives some good advice on how to communicate about climate change, whilst dialling down the self-serving alarmist rhetoric.
Climate-anxiety: reports of frightened children
Last update: 16 Sep 2019

I want to provide links to reports, comments, and discussions of children being frightened by what they have been told about climate change or how they have been told it.

The problem of deliberately targeting the very young using scare stories to win their attention and attract them to political causes or even actions was described in the context of many eco-scares by Herbert London in 1984, in his book 'Why Are They Lying to Our Children'. Climate scares get a mention there, but since then we have seen many quite outrageous efforts by climate activists to, in Lomberg's words, scare 'our kids silly'. He also noted (this is 2009): 'We see the same pattern in the United Kingdom, where a survey showed that half of young children aged between seven and 11 are anxious about the effects of global warming, often losing sleep because of their concern. This is grotesquely harmful. And let us be honest. This scare was intended. Children believe that global warming will destroy the planet before they grow up because adults are telling them that .'

There is some sign that the disgraceful targeting may become less common, now that some researchers have found (2014) that it does not help 'the cause': 'Alarmist claims about the impact of global warming are contributing to a loss of trust in climate scientists, an inquiry has found. Apocalyptic language has been used about greenhouse gas emissions as “a deliberate strategy by some to engage public interest”. However, trying to make people reduce emissions by frightening them has “harmful consequences” because they often respond suspiciously or decide the issue is “too scary to think about”. The inquiry, by a team of senior scientists from a range of disciplines, was commissioned by University College London to find better ways of informing the public about climate science.' (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environme ... 128107.ece) The report from UCL is available as a pdf here: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/public-policy/Poli ... _Proof.pdf
Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:44 am

Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:56 am
If you don't think that's reasonable, you have far more free time in your life than I have in mine.
SethRich wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:11 pm
Interesting how you have more than 5 minutes to protest why you cannot watch a 5 minute video.
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:41 pm
Ah, but 5 minutes spent on gardening, on protesting, on meditating, on yoga, on cooking dinner - even on the toilet :toilet: is 5 minutes productively spent.
If your idea of "protest" is the equivalent of going "la la la la" and covering your ears, whilst you give increasingly bizarre rationalizations as to why you will not watch a short 5 minute on-topic video, then I'm not quite sure what your "5 minutes spent on protesting" draws attention to, other than your blatant intolerance of perspectives that you perceive might not conform to your demonstrably dangerous climate alarmist dogma.

"Productively spent?"... well, I guess its effectiveness will be determined by each individual for themselves. What is abundantly clear through your protest is that you expect people to read the resources you bring to this topic, but cannot demonstrate the civility of doing likewise.

:toilet:

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:52 am

SethRich wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:44 am
What is abundantly clear through your protest is that you expect people to read the resources you bring to this topic, but cannot demonstrate the civility of doing likewise.

:toilet:

Kind regards.

:candle:
I do, though - read, that is. But I read much faster than people talk so I generally don't watch videos.

:coffee:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:11 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:39 pm
More grist for your mill, Paul:
The gloves are off: 'predatory' climate deniers are a threat to our children

In this age of rapidly melting glaciers, terrifying megafires and ever more puissant hurricanes, of acidifying and rising oceans, it is hard to believe that any further prod to climate action is needed.

But the reality is that we continue to live in a business-as-usual world. ...
:reading: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-17/ ... n/11518138

:coffee:
Kim
Here's a key quote for those of us who have a personal stake in the future, i.e., have children:

parenting flannery.jpg
parenting flannery.jpg (74.14 KiB) Viewed 363 times

:group:
Kim

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:28 am

Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:11 am
Here's a key quote for those of us who have a personal stake in the future, i.e., have children:
Rather, that's a quote by someone who admits to being overcome by fury.

By identifying with that statement (i.e. "those of us"), are you saying you share that same fury of someone who, to use your language is "in the pay of those who benefit from" climate alarmism?

Someone ought to pass this Tim Flannery fellow a copy of the Dhammapada and redirect him to Chapter 17.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am

SethRich wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:28 am
Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:11 am
Here's a key quote for those of us who have a personal stake in the future, i.e., have children:
Rather, that's a quote by someone who admits to being overcome by fury.

By identifying with that statement (i.e. "those of us"), are you saying you share that same fury of someone who, to use your language is "in the pay of those who benefit from" climate alarmism?

Someone ought to pass this Tim Flannery fellow a copy of the Dhammapada and redirect him to Chapter 17.

Kind regards.

:candle:
Paul,
You persist in misreading what I write and attributing things to me which I don't agree with. It's an unattractive habit.
In this case, the people I meant by "those of us" were you and me, and any other members here who have children.

The fact that Flannery was furious is beside the point, and I'm not even sure that it would be good for us if he learnt to eliminate his fury, since it clearly motivates him to put even more effort into making the world a better place. It would of course be good for him if he learnt to manage his emotions but that also is beside the point.

And no, I don't share his fury - well, not usually. :smile:

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:41 pm

Greetings,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am
You persist in misreading what I write and attributing things to me which I don't agree with. It's an unattractive habit.
I asked a question - clearly asking "are you saying... [x]" and finished the sentence with a question mark. Making legitimate inquiry on statements whose purpose and intent is unclear is fair enough, and far more charitable and attractive than the strawmen I often see put up in conversation.
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:24 am
The fact that Flannery was furious is beside the point, and I'm not even sure that it would be good for us if he learnt to eliminate his fury
I disagree. Given that he looks "back on [his] 20 years of climate activism as a colossal failure" and is resentful towards people, and still bitter and angry about the world, he serves as a case study in tanha and dukkha. As a Buddhist, I see no cause for celebration there, other than that others may recognize his colossal failures and avoid the futility of heading down the same path.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
Charbel
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:14 am

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Charbel » Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:33 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:57 pm
Frankly, I think it is the climate alarmists who constitute the "immediate threat to our children".

Due to climate alarmism, children are becoming increasingly anxious, scared, terrified, depressed, bitter and angry.

See:
Climate change poses mental health risks to children and teens
Without taking a position on the merits or reality of 'climate change science', I tend to agree with the above. I mostly see media images of most hysterical teenage girls. Elvis thrusting his hips, The Beatles, 2nd wave feminism, premature sexualisation & expectations, materialism, consumerism, pornography and now climate change hysteria appears to be another Cultural Marxist ideology to brainwash impressionable girls who, by nature, are vulnerable to Political Correctness. Since women probably consume more consumer junk than men, it seems ironic how girls are used to promote these agendas.

The adults peddling the climate change hysteria, be they Greenies, Scientists, Politicians or Corporate Leaders, appear to not actually take their message seriously. The Greenies I know still have multiple petrol-guzzling 4WDs & cannot even humble themselves to catch a bus. It appears climate change hysteria is type of child-abuse, similar to some theoretical origins of bi-polar disorder, where parents/adults place children into a 'double-bind' or 'loose-loose situation'.

If adults are not taking a responsible position of leading by example then it gives the impression of more Cultural Marxist social engineering, similar to the Sexual Revolution and Feminism of the 1960s, designed to create social divisions (between parents & children), political disempowerment and anarchy.

I personally believed in Climate Change 30 years ago after viewing some theories of James Lovelock. Since then, I adjusted my lifestyle and my use of fossil fuels. Personally, not only can I lead by example, but I would also be in a position to non-hypocritically make suggestions to children about their attitude towards possible man-made climate change that assists personal responsibility.

As posted before, I came to doubt Climate Change theories because they do not appear to be taken seriously by most who promote them.

:candle:

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Sep 18, 2019 11:16 pm

Charbel wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:33 am
...I personally believed in Climate Change 30 years ago after viewing some theories of James Lovelock. Since then, I adjusted my lifestyle and my use of fossil fuels. Personally, not only can I lead by example, but I would also be in a position to non-hypocritically make suggestions to children about their attitude towards possible man-made climate change that assists personal responsibility.
Great!
:thumb:
As posted before, I came to doubt Climate Change theories because they do not appear to be taken seriously by most who promote them.

:candle:
That may be understandable, Charbel, but I think it's a bit unfair and unreasonable.
Unfair, because (I presume) the fact that doctors drink and smoke doesn't make you distrust medical science, and the fact that Buddhists kill, lie and cheat doesn't make you doubt the dharma.
Unreasonable, because the true test of science is science, and climate science passes that test with flying colours. The best single example of that is the Berkeley Earth project - funded by denialists to disprove global warming, they rigorously examined all the data and concluded that previous results were in fact correct. Read about it here https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?t ... th_Project.

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:45 am

Those loony tree-hugging watermelons over at The Economist are at it again, pushing the Marxist-inspired UN agenda of their overlords ...

Screen Shot 2019-09-19.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-09-19.jpg (91.35 KiB) Viewed 275 times

:stir:
Kim

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:25 am

Greetings Charbel,
Charbel wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:33 am
I mostly see media images of most hysterical teenage girls. Elvis thrusting his hips, The Beatles, 2nd wave feminism, premature sexualisation & expectations, materialism, consumerism, pornography and now climate change hysteria appears to be another Cultural Marxist ideology to brainwash impressionable girls who, by nature, are vulnerable to Political Correctness. Since women probably consume more consumer junk than men, it seems ironic how girls are used to promote these agendas.
It is indeed sad. The scare-mongering is causing significant trauma to members of the new generation...

Teen Climate Activist: Why Study When the World Is Ending?
Jamie Margolin, a high school senior who co-founded This Is Zero Hour and sued her home state of Washington for causing climate change, said at a hearing of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs on Wednesday that she and other teens are told to plan for the future but wonder why when “the world is ending.”

“It’s just really hard to grow up in a world of ‘ifs,’” said Margolin, who told the committee that, like some of the other young witnesses, she suffers from “anxiety issues.”

“I don’t think a lot of people in Congress understand the conversations that are happening every day in American high schools,” Margolin said.

Margolin said she and her peers suffer from “constant looming uncertainty” because of climate change.

“Kids are joking, like, what is even, like, the point … the world is ending,” Margolin said. “What are we studying for? What are we doing?”

“Right now it’s like some members of government and corporations are actively pointing a gun to children’s futures, actively making it worse, actively going out of their way to support corporations and poison us and destroy our future and that is horrifying and it feels like a betrayal,” Margolin said. “It’s like a knife to the heart.”

Margolin said in her prepared testimony that her mother is an immigrant from Columbia.

“I will never get to experience that harmony and paradise on earth that she did,” Margolin said. “I know foreign affairs deals with international development, but this whole idea of development is backwards [sic].”

“We think that development means big cities and lots of money, but in reality places like where my Abuela grew up are just as rich as any American metropolis,” Margolin said.

“I want the entirety of Congress, in fact, the whole U.S. government, to remember the fear and despair that my generation lives with every day, and I want you to hold onto it,” Margolin said in her opening remarks. “How do I even begin to convey to you what it feels like to know that within my lifetime the destruction that we have already seen from the climate crisis will only get worse?”

“The fact that you are staring at a panel of young people testifying before you today pleading for a livable earth should not fill you with pride, it should fill you with shame,” Margolin said.

Swedish teen climate activist Greta Thunberg also testified at the hearing, although she did not read an opening statement but instead presented the committee with a United Nations report on climate change. Thunberg started the Fridays for Future school walkout movement and will be a featured speaker at the United Nations at its climate summit next week.

The hearing unfolded mostly along party lines, with Republicans pointing out how it is countries like China and India that are contributing the most to pollution in the world and that the United States is a top steward of its land and resources at cutting carbon emissions.
:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by SethRich » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:17 pm

Greetings,

I see sadness in those eyes... (and note the t-shirt...)
🍉


Image

May Greta be safe and happy.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:55 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:17 pm
Greetings,

I see sadness in those eyes... (and note the t-shirt...) ...
May Greta be safe and happy.

:candle:
G'day, Paul,
I see sadness, too.
Sadness is an appropriate response to the world situation she has so recently come to understand: climate change (with all its side-effects, such as biodiversity loss, drought, food shortages, climigration, etc) will make the lives of most of her peers more difficult than the lives of her parents' generation unless drastic action is taken soon, but action is being blocked by vested interests.

On the other hand, today she should be able to feel a degree of pride, satisfaction and hope: the School Strike 4 Climate movement which she kicked off has now gone global. Here in Australia, one of the first countries to celebrate the event (simply because we're not too far west of the date line), there have been rallies in all of our capital cities and over 100 regional centres. Given how few large towns we have, some of them must have been in rather small centres, so the strike attracted widespread - and not exclusively urban - support.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-20/ ... s/11531612
... Organisers estimate 300,000 Australians have gathered at climate change rallies around the country in one of the largest protest events in the nation's history.

The global day of action, led by Swedish teenage climate activist Greta Thunberg, is happening three days before the United Nations Climate Change Summit in New York.

Organisers say they expect millions of people to turn out worldwide in 150 countries.

In Australia, demonstrators took place in all eight capital cities as well as 104 other centres.

The Australian protesters called for the Federal Government to commit to:

No new coal, oil or gas projects
100 per cent renewable energy generation and exports by 2030
Funding for "a just transition and job creation for all fossil fuel industry workers and communities" ...
In my own city, the event attracted an extraordinarily diverse crowd: school children from Catholic, independent and state schools, both primary and secondary; their parents and grandparents; university students; and people wearing shirts or carrying placards aligning them with vegans, Sea Shepherd, Extinction Rebellion, the Tertiary Education Union and a couple of other unions, social workers, indigenous groups, Landcare ... too many to count.

Well done, Greta!

:jedi:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:58 am

SethRich wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:25 am
Greetings Charbel,
Charbel wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:33 am
I mostly see media images of most hysterical teenage girls. Elvis thrusting his hips, The Beatles, 2nd wave feminism, premature sexualisation & expectations, materialism, consumerism, pornography and now climate change hysteria appears to be another Cultural Marxist ideology to brainwash impressionable girls who, by nature, are vulnerable to Political Correctness. Since women probably consume more consumer junk than men, it seems ironic how girls are used to promote these agendas.
It is indeed sad. The scare-mongering is causing significant trauma to members of the new generation...

Teen Climate Activist: Why Study When the World Is Ending?
Jamie Margolin, a high school senior who co-founded This Is Zero Hour and sued her home state of Washington for causing climate change, said at a hearing of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs on Wednesday that she and other teens are told to plan for the future but wonder why when “the world is ending.”

“It’s just really hard to grow up in a world of ‘ifs,’” said Margolin, who told the committee that, like some of the other young witnesses, she suffers from “anxiety issues.”

“I don’t think a lot of people in Congress understand the conversations that are happening every day in American high schools,” Margolin said.

Margolin said she and her peers suffer from “constant looming uncertainty” because of climate change.

“Kids are joking, like, what is even, like, the point … the world is ending,” Margolin said. “What are we studying for? What are we doing?”

“Right now it’s like some members of government and corporations are actively pointing a gun to children’s futures, actively making it worse, actively going out of their way to support corporations and poison us and destroy our future and that is horrifying and it feels like a betrayal,” Margolin said. “It’s like a knife to the heart.” ...
:candle:
G'day, Paul,
Margolin is right, too. Her response to her situation is absolutely reasonable. All the evidence is that we need to (mostly) decarbonise the economy in (about) the next ten years to avoid some really awful consequences in the next twenty years and beyond.
Who's going to be most affected?
Today's kids.
You, being fortyish, will probably see some serious fall-off in your living conditions towards the end of your life - even if you stay stay in one of the world's richest countries.
I'm older, so I may escape the crash entirely :tongue: but I think I should either work harder on my meditation so I don't have to come back, or hope to come back next time as something really tough and adaptable - maybe a black rat.
But your kids and mine ...
:cry:
Unless a lot of people work very hard to get us off the BAU highway to a 4 degree world.

:namaste:
Kim



:jedi:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:33 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:55 am
... the School Strike 4 Climate movement which she kicked off has now gone global. Here in Australia, one of the first countries to celebrate the event (simply because we're not too far west of the date line), there have been rallies in all of our capital cities and over 100 regional centres. Given how few large towns we have, some of them must have been in rather small centres, so the strike attracted widespread - and not exclusively urban - support. ...
A good example: you may know Wonthaggi, a small town SE of Melbourne, now an agricultural centre with a population of 4000, formerly a coalmining town.
Hotbed of radical watermelons?
:rofl:

Organisers reportedly expected 50 at the Climate Strike but there were at least 300 - all ages.

:coffee:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:37 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 3:45 am
Those loony tree-hugging watermelons over at The Economist are at it again, pushing the Marxist-inspired UN agenda of their overlords ...

...
:stir:
Kim
Here's their leader - https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/ ... mate-issue
FROM ONE year to the next, you cannot feel the difference. As the decades stack up, though, the story becomes clear. The stripes on our cover represent the world’s average temperature in every year since the mid-19th century. Dark blue years are cooler and red ones warmer than the average in 1971-2000. The cumulative change jumps out. The world is about 1ºC hotter than when this newspaper was young.

To represent this span of human history as a set of simple stripes may seem reductive. These are years which saw world wars, technological innovation, trade on an unprecedented scale and a staggering creation of wealth. But those complex histories and the simplifying stripes share a common cause. The changing climate of the planet and the remarkable growth in human numbers and riches both stem from the combustion of billions of tonnes of fossil fuel ...
:reading:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by Kim O'Hara » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:49 am

Big day today, so lots of posts - sorry (but not very sorry).

Corporate response to the strike: https://www.notbusinessasusual.co/

:reading:

:twothumbs:
Kim

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:20 pm
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Re: Climate change - politics and activism

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:01 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:40 am
Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:28 am
Our timeframe for escaping climate catastrophe is now on the order of ten years. If we haven't cut global emissions by 50% before 2030 (both of those are ballpark figures) we will have so many other problems that the system will likely collapse.
That's all very dramatic.

:console:

I'm just wondering whether you've seen this brief 5-minute video and the group dynamics it describes?... Richard Lindzen discusses the climate change debate on Prager University

:candle:
I watched it. It's unsurprising to me. The dynamics of how Science works is that people argue about it and disagree. Models get tested against measurements and get disproved, or, if they are not disproved, they are tentatively accepted and used to make more predictions. So Lindzen is one of the few percent of people in the field that disagree with the consensus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s ... al_warming What would be concerning to me would be if the percentage was zero, as that would indicate that noone was challenging the consensus, which would mean that the field was stagnant.

In any active area of science, It's always possible to find someone who disagrees with the consensus. That's normal. It's how progress in science is made. What is problematical is when people who have little exposure to how science works looks at those disagreements and concludes that "there is disagreement, therefore such-and-such is wrong". Which is what you seem to be concluding in your posts here.

In your other thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4540&p=9976#p9972 you commented that climate modelling is so difficult and abstract that many don't take it seriously. As I said there, most of us have no idea how the vast majority of the technology we trust with our lives with every day works, so that's a rather weak and potentially dangerous argument.

Climate modelling, along with many other public safety concerns, such as transportation, nuclear power, medical technology, etc, is complex, and in the end can only give probabilities of outcomes. That's how the world is. Uncertain. We have to do our best to make decisions based on probabilities. Welcome to the real world.

:heart:
Mike

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 24 guests