The War on Plastic

Applying the Dharma for the preservation of planet Earth and its inhabitants
User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:41 am

We've just banned single-use plastic bags in supermarkets and the usual suspects are frothing at the mouth.
One of our best cartoonists captures them in action ...
Clancy Dackbulge on the totalitarian ban on plastic bags!
First Dog on the Moon
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... astic-bags

:twothumbs:
Kim

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:16 am

We've basically replaced thin plastic bags with thick plastic bags, how is that better???????
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:12 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:16 am
We've basically replaced thin plastic bags with thick plastic bags, how is that better???????
The idea is that the thick ones will last so much longer than the thin ones that less plastic is used overall. (That theory has been challenged, I believe, but I don't know the details.)
The other thing is that all the thin ones blow around so much that you have hundreds of times more pieces of plastic rubbish in the environment.

Another point entirely is that it becomes an awareness-raising project. It certainly has here, and it's encouraging people to look harder at other single-use plastic items. We've got along way to go, though.

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Ayu
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:21 pm
Location: Europe

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Ayu » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:58 am

I have three shopping bags. You can fold them to the size of a mobile, they are very strong and they last for years now.
So, in five years these three prevented the use of maybe 500 "thin plastic bags".
I think, this number is worth the effort of having a folded bag in my pocket.

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:52 am

Ayu wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:58 am
I have three shopping bags. You can fold them to the size of a mobile, they are very strong and they last for years now.
So, in five years these three prevented the use of maybe 500 "thin plastic bags".
I think, this number is worth the effort of having a folded bag in my pocket.
:twothumbs:
That's the way it should be.
We have a collection of heavy plastic bags and cloth bags which we use all the time, too. The only time we use a thin one is when we forget to take a re-useable bag in to the shop. :oops:
And we're becoming very good at refusing unnecessary packaging. :smile:

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:53 pm

It seems to me like the ban literally increases the amount of plastic in the environment. 1 reusable new bag equals the plastic of 4 old plastic bags, so that's progress????
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Wizard in the Forest
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:39 am

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Wizard in the Forest » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:27 pm

We're supposed to re-use them. That's the reason.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:48 pm

So 20% of people reusue them, big deal.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:25 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:48 pm
So 20% of people reusue them, big deal.
If 20% of people reuse them (I reckon the figure will be higher but let's use yours) and reuse each bag ten times (I reckon the figure will be higher but let's not be over-ambitious) then 100 bags will be used on 200 occasions. That's a win already.
But the reuseable bags cost money. I think that means that more than 20% will reuse the bags, even if they don't care about the environment, and that many of them will keep on reusing the bags until they wear out.
And then there's the social pressure and the awareness-raising aspect ... I reckon there's going to be a decent net benefit.

:thinking:

Especially if we can be talk it up rather than talking it down.

:thinking:
Kim

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:30 pm

For an entertaining look at the media furore over the bans ... http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transc ... 865151.htm

:popcorn:
Kim

User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 pm
Location: Northern Indiana

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:58 am

I wonder why they don't just mandate using biodegradable bags. Here in the US the majority will not care unless you mandate change or put a price on it, like charging a nickel per bag.

DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:12 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:58 am
I wonder why they don't just mandate using biodegradable bags. Here in the US the majority will not care unless you mandate change or put a price on it, like charging a nickel per bag.

DS
Biodegradable bags are still environmentally expensive (all those raw materials and processing going into something that may only be used for a few minutes) and intrusive (they still take quite a while to break down).
Putting a price on it works well, and that is one side of what we've done. The other side is making sure the replacement is strong enough for repeated use.

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:29 am

Seems to me the price per bag needs to be much higher if you're really going to make a difference, here they're 10c not much.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 pm
Location: Northern Indiana

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:37 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:29 am
Seems to me the price per bag needs to be much higher if you're really going to make a difference, here they're 10c not much.
Do you get any money for recycling them?
DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 am

no
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

chownah
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:08 am

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by chownah » Tue Jul 03, 2018 12:52 pm

Isn't single use plastic a bad thing because of its danger to wildlife?

I think from a climate standpoint it is not so bad if it does not degrade and is landfilled as it usually is then it will just sit there for a thousand or more years I think.

Am I mistaken?
chownah

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm

The new heavier reusable plastic bags are just as potentially bad to wildlife, how are they superior??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Dorje Shedrub
Posts: 449
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:47 pm
Location: Northern Indiana

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:41 pm

I think most people will do the same thing with the thicker bags as they do with the thinner. People concerned about this likely bring their own fabric bags to market. I always forget .

DS
"As far as social economic theory is concerned, I am Marxist. " ~ HHDL

chownah
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:08 am

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by chownah » Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:20 am

lyndon taylor wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:03 pm
The new heavier reusable plastic bags are just as potentially bad to wildlife, how are they superior??
The idea is that fewer will be used....of course some people who don't really know for sure will claim that no fewer or almost no fewer will be used while other people will claim that alot fewer will be used.....neither of these people know for sure....I'm sure there will be studies done. I remember when there were no plastic bags and it was only paper....then plastic came on th scene and there was a big debate about which was more environmentally sound....I don't think that the hazard to wildlife was even considered at that time....it generated quite a bit of arguement and I'm not sure if it ever came to a clear conclusion.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle
chownah

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: The War on Plastic

Post by Kim O'Hara » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:38 am

chownah wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:20 am
... Reduce, Reuse, Recycle ...
Yep!
And in that order of importance. Reducing is the best strategy, Re-using helps Reduce, and Recycling is better than dumping what you can no longer re-use.

Actually, I want another "R" in there: Repair.
It should go between Reuse and Recycle..

:namaste:
Kim

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 25 guests