"If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Applying the Dharma for the preservation of planet Earth and its inhabitants
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SethRich
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"If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Sun Dec 22, 2019 10:39 pm

Greetings,

(With apologies to Scott McKenzie...)

How does a city fall like this? And how can other cities learn not to descend into abject squalor?


Little bang for the buck: SF’s spending on street cleaning not really doing much

Between street sweeping crews, staffed portable toilets and sidewalk steamers, San Francisco spent $94 million — or about $257,534 a day this year — trying to keep the city clean. And while progress has been made, the effort remains a losing battle.

The years of trench warfare between cleanup crews and bad actors was laid out clearly in two images Monday.

The first image was of Mayor London Breed flanked by city, civic and tourist industry leaders standing together in front of the giant Christmas tree at Union Square. The intent was to reassure tourists that the city is taking seriously concerns about its squalid streets and people behaving badly.

While that was happening an image of a man with his pants around his knees defecating in a Marina Safeway aisle was rocketing around the internet and TV.

“Here’s a pic of a man on drugs taking a poo in aisle 10 of the (Marina) Safeway, Sunday morning in #SF. Why is this okay?” tweeted Deborah Kan.

He “had plenty of time to find the toilet paper aisle, but not the actual bathroom,” Matt Estrada added in a second tweet.

(see article link for the full article)
:toilet:

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:45 pm

That's late-stage capitalism for you ...

:coffee:
Kim

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 pm

Greetings,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:45 pm
That's late-stage capitalism for you ...
If by "late-stage capitalism" you mean "crony-capitalism", you may well have a point as I'm highly suspicious that this US$257,534 of tax-payer money a day, was actually directed towards sanitation services.

:spy:

That said, plenty of places around the world have had "capitalism" as long as San Francisco (i.e. thus, comparably "late-stage") but without the public defecation, degeneracy and abject squalor... so it wouldn't seem to be a leading factor.

Either way, I feel karuna towards residents who suffer as a result of this epic mismanagement.

The Amount of Poop on San Francisco's Streets Has Hit an All-Time High
The city had a whopping 28,084 reports of turds in 2018.


It sounds like a literal and metaphoric shithole.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:29 am

SethRich wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 pm
Greetings,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:45 pm
That's late-stage capitalism for you ...
If by "late-stage capitalism" you mean "crony-capitalism"...
Late-stage capitalism is roughly the same as crony-capitalism, and neoliberalism overlaps (and tries to excuse) both of them.

Closer to home ...

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... arwin-port

:coffee:
Kim

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:38 am

SethRich wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:52 pm

It sounds like a literal and metaphoric shithole.
:console:
Something tells me you haven't spent much time in Manila or Bangkok or Kolkata or ... just about any biggish, poorish, city, actually.

And "poorish" is part of the key.
Before you jump up and say, "But SF is rich and can afford to do better," remember that one of the features of late-stage capitalism is extreme inequality: SF (and the US) may be rich, but the majority of people in SF (and the US) are not.

:coffee:
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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:59 am

Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:38 am
Something tells me you haven't spent much time in Manila or Bangkok or Kolkata or ... just about any biggish, poorish, city, actually.
Is it legal to defecate on the footpath in Manila and Bangkok too?
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:38 am
And "poorish" is part of the key.
Before you jump up and say, "But SF is rich and can afford to do better," remember that one of the features of late-stage capitalism is extreme inequality: SF (and the US) may be rich, but the majority of people in SF (and the US) are not.
OK, but what you're attributing the problem to in this instance seems incredibly selective since, as per my last post, there are countless other places that have been capitalist for centuries that don't have this problem. I won't say it's not a factor, but the correlation doesn't appear very strong, otherwise virtually everywhere would be a literal and metaphoric shithole... and thankfully they're not.

Stronger, more specific, and more proximate correlations would appear to be factors like:

- Decades of continuous Democrat governance
- Over-taxation that the poor cannot afford
- Sanctuary City status

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:31 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:59 am
otherwise virtually everywhere would be a literal and metaphoric shithole... and thankfully they're not.
Have you ever smelled around train stations in Paris? Or seen the dogshits on sidewalks about everywhere in France?
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:10 am

Greetings,
fwiw wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 3:31 am
Have you ever smelled around train stations in Paris? Or seen the dogshits on sidewalks about everywhere in France?
No, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:44 am

The two most visited cities in 2019 are Paris and Bangkok, which are not exactly the cleanest cities in the world

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-vi ... ked-2019-9

Perhaps you could invest in a Hazmat rental in any of these two. I sense like a great missed opportunity there
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by DNS » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:09 am

Most liberal city in the U.S.
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/gfii45i ... 56bd9c5c41
San Francisco

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:21 am

Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:38 am
Something tells me you haven't spent much time in Manila or Bangkok or Kolkata or ... just about any biggish, poorish, city, actually.
It would be interesting if someone found a way to plot right wing propaganda sensitivity against time spent in non-first-world countries. My experience as a traveller tells me there would be a neat little linear regression to be made
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:52 am

Greetings fwiw,
fwiw wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:21 am
It would be interesting if someone found a way to plot right wing propaganda sensitivity against time spent in non-first-world countries. My experience as a traveller tells me there would be a neat little linear regression to be made
Does your worldly-wise experience give you insight into reasons to be either in favour of, or against public defecation? Or are you suggesting that left-wingers are actually in favour of unsanitary degeneracy, filth, and incompetence amongst corrupt government officials?

Otherwise, I fail to see the relevance of your off-topic chin-stroking. Perhaps it warrants a separate topic like Kim's red herring above about Chinese operated ports, and whatnot?

:ugeek:

Kind regards.

:candle:
Last edited by SethRich on Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Kim O'Hara
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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:12 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:59 am
...Stronger, more specific, and more proximate correlations would appear to be factors like:

- Decades of continuous Democrat governance
- Over-taxation that the poor cannot afford
- Sanctuary City status

:candle:
:jawdrop:

I never knew the dataset to back up such assertions existed, let alone that it was publicly available, yet you found it in a matter of minutes!
:bow: :bow: :bow:

Are you permitted to share it with us mere mortals or is access restricted to Hidden Masters of the Universe?

:popcorn:
Kim

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:24 am

Greetings Kim,

On Combating corruption... https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/gove ... corruption
Corruption in San Franshitsco (a report out of SF itself) https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/edi ... 024070.php
On Sanctuary cities (with specific reference to #1 worst, San Franshitsco)... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... ary-cities
On Overtaxing & Poverty (California (Poverty And Taxes) And Texas (Jobs And Freedom))... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevor ... 00955b70f3

I could give you more, but I suspect attachment to views would render such efforts futile. Nonetheless, even though there's no socialist references there from the Grauniad, UN or YourABC, there is ample substantiation for the aforementioned comments. I'm yet to find any resources that specifically blame "late-stage capitalism" for the localized epidemic of shitting on the streets, footpaths and supermarket aisles in San Franshitsco, but I will keep an eye out.

I could find more sources if you want, but I don't want to shit on SF any more than is necessary when there's already enough public shitting going on there, as it is.

On a happy note, my 3 year old son has recently learned to defecate in the toilet and does not shit in the street, as is done in San Franshitsco.

:toilet:

:candle:
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:28 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:52 am
Does your worldly-wise experience give you insight into reasons to be either in favour of, or against public defecation? Or are you suggesting that left-wingers are actually in favour of unsanitary degeneracy, filth, and incompetence amongst corrupt government officials?
Well I have seen quite a bit of public defecation in India, especially in the poorest areas where a number of things havent changed much since the Buddha's time, including, it seems, defecation patterns. I think I even remember the Buddha saying that at one point he used to eat his own poop.
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:54 am

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:24 am
Greetings Kim,

On Combating corruption... https://www.worldbank.org/en/topic/gove ... corruption
Good reference - but doesn't mention SF, Califormia or the USA.
Corruption in San Franshitsco (a report out of SF itself) https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/edi ... 024070.php
Okay - but corruption exists everywhere, this report has nothing to with shit, and you reckon my Darwin reference is a :redherring: ?
On Sanctuary cities (with specific reference to #1 worst, San Franshitsco)... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wash ... ary-cities
Have you thought about possible correlations between people seeking "sanctuary" and the numbers of poor, desperate people in "sanctuary cities"?
I think this reference supports my argument rather than yours.
On Overtaxing & Poverty (California (Poverty And Taxes) And Texas (Jobs And Freedom))... https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevor ... 00955b70f3
Hmm - comparing California with Texas to the latter's advantage, written by a Teaxn Republican, who just happens to be on the staff of a Kochtopus-funded right-wing thinktank. Is it at all possible that might come to the subject with the teeniest morsel of bias?
I could give you more
You will have to, if you want to convince me or any rational reader.

:coffee:
Kim

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by fwiw » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:17 pm

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:59 am
there are countless other places that have been capitalist for centuries that don't have this problem. I won't say it's not a factor, but the correlation doesn't appear very strong, otherwise virtually everywhere would be a literal and metaphoric shithole... and thankfully they're not.
Late stage capitalism is not when a country has been capitalist for a long time, it's for example when the country as a whole, especially the billionaires, is getting ever richer and yet life expectancy is declining, like it is the case right now in USA and UK
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:27 pm

Greetings Kim,
Kim O'Hara wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:54 am
You will have to, if you want to convince me or any rational reader.
I have no interest in changing others views.

If others change their views based on information presented, that's all well and good, but it's not the purpose.

Rational people have an open mind and come to their own well-considered positions, despite your coercion (oops, I mean "leadership")

Kind regards.

:candle:
Last edited by SethRich on Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by SethRich » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:34 pm

Greetings fwiw,
fwiw wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:17 pm
Late stage capitalism is not when a country has been capitalist for a long time, it's for example when the country as a whole, especially the billionaires, is getting ever richer and yet life expectancy is declining, like it is the case right now in USA and UK
I don't believe the notion of "the poor getting poorer" is attributable to Capitalism. To me it appears attributable to parasites on that model, such as big government and the over-taxation that buoys it.

I had an eye opening experience a few years ago, when I saw a man, who was by all accounts a good man, come into a position of power and then find himself abusing that power to push his own agendas. Now, if someone I would regard as a good man could be corrupted by a little power, what of a career politician, corrupted by greater power, influence, connections and opportunity?

Those people, their fleecing of public budgets to fuel personal gain, and the taxation drawn from the community to fuel that misappropriation, are the root cause of this and many other problems... and San Francisco's corruption is a perfect case study of that.

As per my above note to Kim, I have no interest in convincing you of this. It is my gift to you, and do with it as you will.

Kind regards and Merry Christmas.

:candle:
Last edited by SethRich on Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Our civilization is at the point where we need to start discerning between 'Progression' & 'Regression'." (Kabamur)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

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Re: "If you're going to San Franshitsco... Be sure to wear some Hazmat protective gear"

Post by Kim O'Hara » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:01 pm

SethRich wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:34 pm
Greetings fwiw,
fwiw wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:17 pm
Late stage capitalism is not when a country has been capitalist for a long time, it's for example when the country as a whole, especially the billionaires, is getting ever richer and yet life expectancy is declining, like it is the case right now in USA and UK
I don't believe the notion of "the poor getting poorer" is attributable to Capitalism. To me it appears attributable to parasites on that model, such as big government and the over-taxation that buoys it.
In the terminology of IT, Paul, what fwiw points out is a feature, not a bug, of capitalism. It's the way the system is designed to work: money and privilege are funnelled upwards to an ever-smaller minority, who (naturally) proclaim the success and the virtues of the "free" market.
If you're one of the minority, good luck to you. If you're not, you're like the trees trusting the axe as a friend on the basis that its handle is made of wood.

:namaste:
Kim

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