Ideas for reducing homelessness

Applying the Dharma for the preservation of planet Earth and its inhabitants
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:49 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by DNS »

As an off-shoot of the other topics we have here, so as not to take the other threads further off-topic, I thought I'd start this one to discuss some possible solutions.

I don't think we can ever eliminate homelessness, unfortunately. There are some who refuse to move into shelters and other temporary housing. Some have mental health issues, addiction issues and are not interested in rehabbing from that at the current time and/ or openly admit that they don't want to follow the rules of the shelters or the temp housing facilities.

However, there are of course plenty of people who do not want to be homeless and lost their jobs or came onto some other bad luck and would like to have permanent housing.

1. The most common suggested solution, with some success is subsidized housing. The drawback on that is it requires taxation and tax payers are typically not receptive on increases to their taxes.

One of the biggest causes of homelessness and increased homelessness is the cost of housing. In recent years, perhaps due to the good economy in general (for those with jobs and careers), the cost of housing has increased quite a bit; the cost to purchase a home and the cost to rent a home or apartment. What if homes could be produced for relatively low cost?

2. I like the idea of 3d printed homes. It only costs around $4,000 to build. Even if the builders had to mark up a little for their profits, it should still be fairly inexpensive.

Image
https://www.businessinsider.com/3d-home ... int-2018-9

And it looks pretty cute, imo. It looks even "Zen" like. :yinyang:

Other ideas?

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:49 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by DNS »

The cost of housing also sky rockets sometimes during a good economy due to landlords doing massive improvements to their properties. Then when it is complete, they naturally want to receive some return on their capital outlays, so increase rents. Normally we would like to see property owners improve their buildings, beautify the city, however, it comes at a cost of much higher rents.

3. New York City has implemented some new regulations to try and slow renovations.
https://commercialobserver.com/2019/09/ ... -industry/

Basically, it allows property owners to recoup only part of their costs via increased rents, thereby preventing the costs from being all passed to the tenants. The idea being; the less likely landlords are to do renovations, the less likely it will be that they increase their rents.

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings,

The first and most critical factor in my opinion is full employment. This enables pretty much anyone who is willing and able to work to do so. It also means more money collected in taxation, which if not misappropriated (e.g. see this topic) can go towards solutions to address homelessness.

Another factor is to stop "importing" unskilled labour that serves to drive down wages at the bottom end of the labour market. Furthermore, other factors which disproportionately disadvantage or tax the poor on essentials should be abolished - e.g. remove petrol taxes, stop forcing up energy prices to be more "green" - as these "do gooder" policies leave less money in the pockets of the poor, which could have otherwise been used to help prevent them falling into homelessness in the first place.

The family unit should be supported, not attacked or undermined, because statistics show that single-parent families struggle much more than two-parent families, and are far more likely to wind up in poverty, on drugs, and/or committing crimes.

I am not in favour of subsidized housing, as this serves as a disincentive towards working and earning, lest the eligibility for subsidized housing be lost. Also, as I learned from The Art Of The Deal, they enable people who don't need them, to rort the incentive schemes.

Charity should be encouraged. It is a great opportunity to do meritorious deeds, and it also reduces the tax burden of supporting the homeless. Opportunities exist to more closely co-ordinate local governments and charities.

Taxation that has been collected can then be redirected to "bridge" whatever gap remains, after those common-sense factors have all been attended to. All being well, there will be no gap there - but even if there is, there should be plenty of taxpayer revenue to address it, as there was in the past before the rorting and government corruption became endemic.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
fwiw
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:06 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by fwiw »

I would start with repealing the laws that criminalize helping the poor and homeless
... just my opinion, for what it's worth

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by lyndon taylor »

SethRich wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:00 am
Greetings,

The first and most critical factor in my opinion is full employment. This enables pretty much anyone who is willing and able to work to do so. It also means more money collected in taxation, which if not misappropriated (e.g. see this topic) can go towards solutions to address homelessness.

Another factor is to stop "importing" unskilled labour that serves to drive down wages at the bottom end of the labour market. Furthermore, other factors which disproportionately disadvantage or tax the poor on essentials should be abolished - e.g. remove petrol taxes, stop forcing up energy prices to be more "green" - as these "do gooder" policies leave less money in the pockets of the poor, which could have otherwise been used to help prevent them falling into homelessness in the first place.

The family unit should be supported, not attacked or undermined, because statistics show that single-parent families struggle much more than two-parent families, and are far more likely to wind up in poverty, on drugs, and/or committing crimes.

I am not in favour of subsidized housing, as this serves as a disincentive towards working and earning, lest the eligibility for subsidized housing be lost. Also, as I learned from The Art Of The Deal, they enable people who don't need them, to rort the incentive schemes.

Charity should be encouraged. It is a great opportunity to do meritorious deeds, and it also reduces the tax burden of supporting the homeless. Opportunities exist to more closely co-ordinate local governments and charities.

Taxation that has been collected can then be redirected to "bridge" whatever gap remains, after those common-sense factors have all been attended to. All being well, there will be no gap there - but even if there is, there should be plenty of taxpayer revenue to address it, as there was in the past before the rorting and government corruption became endemic.

:candle:
what a bunch of bad ideas!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by Kim O'Hara »

DNS wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:18 am
...
2. I like the idea of 3d printed homes. It only costs around $4,000 to build. Even if the builders had to mark up a little for their profits, it should still be fairly inexpensive.

...
https://www.businessinsider.com/3d-home ... int-2018-9

And it looks pretty cute, imo. It looks even "Zen" like. :yinyang:

Other ideas?
Yes, It looks nice. The trouble is that a group of them are just going to become an upmarket trailer park, with all the social negatives implicit in that, unless the causes of the problem are addressed.
And the primary causes are based firmly in economic inequality.
Paul's suggestions are aimed in the right direction, i.e. reducing poverty, but are equivalent to trying to treat malnutrition with fasting, or alcoholism with booze: neoliberalism is the direct cause of the problem.

:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Nicholas
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by Nicholas »

David, does the $4000 include power, gas lines, sewer connections?

Kim: "And the primary causes are based firmly in economic inequality."

Nope. Primary causes are based in self-centered thoughts, words & speech (bad karma), in this life & past ones.

As long as socially engaged folk put economic factors as primary, solutions will ever evade us.

One helpful condition, aiming just at major cities, is what NYC is doing. Forgot the acronym, but it is basically giving those who are willing and able a menial city job & place to live - for a limited time I suppose.
Last edited by Nicholas on Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May all seek, find and follow the Path of Buddhas.

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:04 am
what a bunch of bad ideas!!
Speaking of which, do tell us more about trickle up economics and its benefits for the homeless.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings,
Nicholas wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:53 pm
As long as socially engaged folk put economic factors as primary, solutions will ever evade us.
Agreed.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:49 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by DNS »

SethRich wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:00 am
The first and most critical factor in my opinion is full employment. This enables pretty much anyone who is willing and able to work to do so. It also means more money collected in taxation, which if not misappropriated (e.g. see this topic) can go towards solutions to address homelessness.
:thumb: Yes, definitely, that is probably the best, if possible. It's hard for people to pay bills if no income is coming into the household. Borrowing from family and friends only can go so far and in the end they lose their home (house or apartment) if no income is coming in.
I am not in favour of subsidized housing, as this serves as a disincentive towards working and earning, lest the eligibility for subsidized housing be lost. Also, as I learned from The Art Of The Deal, they enable people who don't need them, to rort the incentive schemes.
I'm a landlord in my business and unfortunately this is true. I've seen people "work the system" and get on programs, including subsidized housing who don't really need it.
Charity should be encouraged. It is a great opportunity to do meritorious deeds, and it also reduces the tax burden of supporting the homeless. Opportunities exist to more closely co-ordinate local governments and charities.
:thumb: Catholic charities has done a lot here in my city with opening up shelters. Most of the shelter beds here were opened by Catholic Charities.

There are also some Buddhist temples who will house new immigrants from Southeast Asia for a temporary period until they can get their own place.

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 794
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:49 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by DNS »

Nicholas wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:53 pm
David, does the $4000 include power, gas lines, sewer connections?
Not sure, probably not at that cheap of a price. But if it were constructed on a vacant land with several other tiny houses, that cost could be spread out among the homes, so may not add too much to the price.

User avatar
Kim O'Hara
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:07 am
Location: Tropical Queensland, Australia

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by Kim O'Hara »

G'day, Paul,
I actually dropped in a moment ago to post something relevant to neoliberalism and social inequality, laughed at fwiw's post and then took up your suggestion of moving that discussion to a separate topic as you suggested.

The topic already exists, of course - "Against Neliberalism" - and my post is here - viewtopic.php?f=7&t=277&p=11233#p11233

:coffee:
Kim

SarathW
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:27 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SarathW »

Tax on children who do not look after their parents and use the money for funding homeless people.
Compulsory super annulation scheme. (forced to save for the future by government intervention via employers)

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by lyndon taylor »

SethRich wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:11 pm
Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:04 am
what a bunch of bad ideas!!
Speaking of which, do tell us more about trickle up economics and its benefits for the homeless.

Kind regards.

:candle:
I suggest you read my link, it would almost totally solve the homeless problem.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:34 pm
I suggest you read my link, it would almost totally solve the homeless problem.
It reads like wishful socialist fan-fiction to me, but by all means explain, with recourse to sound economic principles how your economic theory actually... ahem... "works" ... and how "it would almost totally solve the homeless problem".

:popcorn:

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by lyndon taylor »

by providing food, shelter and medical care for everyone that needed it, its an alternative to the living wage, in that it provides services instead of cash and would cost roughly the same amount
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:09 am
by providing food, shelter and medical care for everyone that needed it, its an alternative to the living wage, in that it provides services instead of cash and would cost roughly the same amount
So if I head on down to Lyndontown and elect not to work, and I "need" food, shelter and medical care, those things should just be given to me? Who should give them to me, and who should fund it? Will these things be offered to me voluntarily, or will others have them taken away from them, so I can receive them? Where does the funding for these things come from?

Also, once I'm cruising, chillin', getting whatever I need for free, because that's how we roll in Lyndontown, what is my incentive to do anything for myself or society in order to be productive and self-sustaining? I mean, to pay for all these freebies for anyone in society who "needs" them, income tax and other forms of taxation must be through the roof. Why would I work and be taxed through the eyeballs just to pay my own way and subsidize slackers, when I myself could be a slacker?

It sounds, on balance, like a system geared towards sloth, deterioration and degeneracy, rather than one geared towards motivation, achievement and productivity, but I'm open to hearing how it is otherwise in Lyndontown. Anyone who wanted to be successful in life, either as a worker or a business owner, would pack up and leave for a city that wasn't so oppressive to workers.

Further, I don't see how a city where economic activity is stifled and crushed in this way is going to avoid the phenomena of homelessness. It sounds more like it would plunge everyone into homelessness, once everyone who stays takes the slacker option. Then, nothing being created means nothing left to mooch. Then, your people are not only homeless, they aren't getting their freebies either.

Welcome to Lyndontown.

:popcorn:

:candle:
Last edited by SethRich on Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by lyndon taylor »

you're a sick man, all you seem to care about is yourself
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
SethRich
Posts: 738
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:57 pm

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by SethRich »

Greetings Lyndon,
lyndon taylor wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:07 am
you're a sick man, all you seem to care about is yourself
If I only cared about myself, I wouldn't be making practical, viable, workable, tried-and-tested contributions to a topic on "ideas for reducing homelessness", would I?

If your "ideas for reducing homelessness" sound like something that came out of a kindergarten class, and don't hold up to even the slightest level of scrutiny and no one in their right mind would apply them, then what use are these "ideas"? They are worthless.

It's all very well to dream up and gush over fantasy economic models, but if you can't account for, or conceive of how people will actually behave and operate under such a model and why, then it's nowt more than wishful thinking - papanca. If they were implemented they would be detrimental and harmful and cause great suffering to people. When people say "communism doesn't work", it isn't just an insult or a meme.

Feelings and emotional outbursts do not cure homelessness either, Lyndon. Some may elect to coddle your intellectual and emotional immaturity, and your perverse outbursts, but I have no such compulsion to. I will however refer you to suttas that may assist in this regard, if you have any interest in applying the Buddha's teachings to your situation.

In the meantime, please try harder. Lift your game.

Kind regards.

:candle:
"He goes to hell, the one who asserts what didn’t take place" (Ud 4.8)
"Let us neither be perpetrators nor victims!" (DN26)

"Transition to greatness" (Donald J. Trump)

:candle: "...his name was Seth Rich..."

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Location: US occupied Northern Mexico

Re: Ideas for reducing homelessness

Post by lyndon taylor »

more dribble!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk.

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests