The GOP

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The GOP

Post by DNS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 pm

I believe most American Buddhists are Democrats (capital D, the political party) or independents and liberal to very liberal (progressives). I believe this is the case due to belonging to a minority religion in a country that is mostly Christian and / or agnostic. And for those of Asian ancestry, they might be attracted to the Dems due to civil rights, belonging to a minority religion and also a minority race and ethnicity. But is the GOP (Grand Old Party, aka the Republican Party) really that bad?

From another thread:
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:30 am
None of the above should be surprising considering that, historically, the Democratic Party is the party of slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK, the Italian mafia, the Vietnam war, etc.

Though I don't believe that Republicans are always right and Democrats are always wrong, I have discovered that Republicans are more often than not the lesser of two evils in matters of actual policy.

Nonviolence is a central concept of India's great religions, and as a student of Indian religions, I can no longer support the Democratic Party. Neither would Gandhi if he were alive today, who opposed abortion as an act of violence.
It is true, when you look at the history of the Republican Party, they were the abolitionists, they were the party that passed the first civil rights act. Most black Americans voted Republican up until the 1960s. MLK's parents were registered Republicans.

And it's not as if the Dems have any higher moral ground when it comes to warfare, starting some major wars in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia-Kosovo. The Atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were dropped by a Democrat president (Truman). They targeted and killed over 100,000 civilians in Japan.


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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm

Please also keep in mind that, as far as I know, more Republicans than Democrats voted in favor of Lyndon Johnson's civil rights legislation. The original intent of proposing this legislation, in the words of people like JFK and MLK, was equal opportunity for all regardless of race, rather than affirmative action.

Asian-Americans in California are actively protesting against affirmative action in college admissions for effectively being reverse discrimination against whites and Asians. Also, traditionally, many Asian-Americans voted Republican:
Here in North America, there are large numbers of registered Republican Buddhists. Many of them are Asian-Americans, immigrants or the descendants of immigrants who fled left-wing violence in their native countries. One can only believe that Buddhists are naturally aligned with liberalism if no time has been spent among Vietnamese, Cambodian, Thai, Chinese, or other Asian-Americans. Anti-Communism drives many such Buddhists into the Republican Party, as does similar views on traditional values, economic policy, patriotism, and other issues.

One of the greatest disconnects with the Democrats is over abortion, which the Democratic Party supports and the Republican Party opposes. The belief that life begins at conception is nearly universal across Buddhist Asia, and the overwhelming majority of Buddhist monks, nuns, and priests believe abortion to be a violation of the first precept. This has led many Buddhist leaders in Asian-American communities to endorse Republican candidates. At the same time, we have to be careful about stereotyping Asian-American Buddhism, a diverse phenomenon that also includes many Democrats and other liberals.

When we look at the wider picture, the chorus of convert Buddhist support for liberals looks less like a religious position, and more like a class and ethnicity one. Most convert Buddhists already supported a liberal political orientation before they became involved with Buddhism, and convert Buddhism draws heavily from a section of the educated, white, middle-to-upper class demographic that supports liberal candidates regardless of whether the individual believers are Buddhist, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or agnostic. Naturally such people are attracted to elements of Buddhism that seem to resonate with liberal values, but it is worth asking how much of this is an inherent liberal bias within Buddhism, and how much is the process of picking and choosing which selects only compatible parts of Buddhism and leaves aside other, central practices and views that are less supportive of liberal positions.
https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/voting-buddhist/
I am by no means a fanboy of Trump or the GOP. I believe that Republican politicians are often too beholden to big donors and right-wing talk radio, and that Trump is an offensively prideful person. At the same time, I have discovered that the GOP is often the lesser of two evils in matters of actual policy substance.

By the way, here is a quote of Lyndon Johnson cited by black conservatives:
These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.
While the above might not be an exact quote, it almost certainly reflects what Johnson believed from practically everything else we know about him.

According to black conservatives, Democrats give the black community just enough social programs to keep their vote, but never enough individual empowerment for black people to earn for themselves a decent standard of living.
Last edited by Presto Kensho on Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The GOP

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:38 pm

The GOP has become the WHite Power party, and no self respecting black person would consider voting for them, what happened 150 years ago is hardly relevent to what the parties represent today, GOP is for taking away health care, taking away food stamps, and perpetuating poverty on a large percentage of innocent Americans, to defend the GOP today is tantamount to supporting the racist policies of our President IMHO

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Re: The GOP

Post by Dan74 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm

The Parties change over time. I don't think the Republican Party of today is the Party of President Eisenhower, do you?

Even a cursory reading of the political history of the US shows the complex currents within each party. It is certainly not black-and-white.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:08 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm
The Parties change over time. I don't think the Republican Party of today is the Party of President Eisenhower, do you?

Even a cursory reading of the political history of the US shows the complex currents within each party. It is certainly not black-and-white.
I agree. At one point, the Republican Party wasn't so bad. It's definitely not the party of Lincoln today, however, and I don't personally find much to draw me towards them.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:22 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm
The Parties change over time. I don't think the Republican Party of today is the Party of President Eisenhower, do you?

Even a cursory reading of the political history of the US shows the complex currents within each party. It is certainly not black-and-white.

I agree it's certainly not black and white, which is why we need to look at the various issues and then decide for ourselves which party we feel is the lesser of two evils.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:23 pm

Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm
By the way, here is a quote of Lyndon Johnson cited by black conservatives:
These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.
Well, Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on being terrible and racist. You ever hear some of the things Richard Nixon and Donald Trump have said?

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:30 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:08 pm
Dan74 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm
The Parties change over time. I don't think the Republican Party of today is the Party of President Eisenhower, do you?

Even a cursory reading of the political history of the US shows the complex currents within each party. It is certainly not black-and-white.
I agree. At one point, the Republican Party wasn't so bad. It's definitely not the party of Lincoln today, however, and I don't personally find much to draw me towards them.
If you look at the Democratic Party today, it's being taken over by the radical left, leaving moderates and independents little reason to be drawn towards their party. The Democratic Party of today is not the party of Bill Clinton.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:32 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:23 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm
By the way, here is a quote of Lyndon Johnson cited by black conservatives:
These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.
Well, Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on being terrible and racist. You ever hear some of the things Richard Nixon and Donald Trump have said?
I believe the big difference is that unlike Nixon and Trump, Democrats take the vote of black people for granted. According to Joe Biden in a recent interview, you "ain't black" if you're undecided on voting for him. Black conservatives call this mentality the Democratic plantation.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:42 pm

I believe the reason why the Asian community is shifting Democratic is the perceived racial insensitivity of Trump, as well as leftist indoctrination on college campuses.

Many Asian immigrants fled leftist regimes and worked hard to make a living for their children, despite not having a college education.

Now their kids are being indoctrinated in college to reject the meritocratic beliefs of their parents and see America as an inherently racist and oppressive country.

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Re: The GOP

Post by DNS » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:44 pm

Dan74 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:43 pm
The Parties change over time. I don't think the Republican Party of today is the Party of President Eisenhower, do you?
I like IKE; he's my favorite president. No, both parties today are nothing like IKE. He warned of the military industrial complex. And he walked the talk; no major wars, a defense budget that was lower than any of his successors, even adjusted for inflation.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 pm

Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:32 pm
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:23 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:43 pm
By the way, here is a quote of Lyndon Johnson cited by black conservatives:

Well, Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on being terrible and racist. You ever hear some of the things Richard Nixon and Donald Trump have said?
I believe the big difference is that unlike Nixon and Trump, Democrats take the vote of black people for granted. According to Joe Biden in a recent interview, you "ain't black" if you're undecided on voting for him. Black conservatives call this mentality the Democratic plantation.
As bad as what Biden said was, Nixon said far worse. And he definitely took minority votes for granted. Dude was straight up racist. As for the rest, I'm personally not a fan of other party and not only advocate for a strong third party alternative (preferably a progressive worker's party) but a more proportional and democratic electoral system, including the implementation of rank choice voting.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm

Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:32 pm
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:23 pm


Well, Democrats certainly don't have a monopoly on being terrible and racist. You ever hear some of the things Richard Nixon and Donald Trump have said?
I believe the big difference is that unlike Nixon and Trump, Democrats take the vote of black people for granted. According to Joe Biden in a recent interview, you "ain't black" if you're undecided on voting for him. Black conservatives call this mentality the Democratic plantation.
As bad as what Biden said was, Nixon said far worse. And he definitely took minority votes for granted. Dude was straight up racist. As for the rest, I'm personally not a fan of other party and not only advocate for a strong third party alternative (preferably a progressive worker's party) but a more proportional and democratic electoral system, including the implementation of rank choice voting.
Taking votes for granted means you expect someone's vote without earning it.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm

Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:32 pm


I believe the big difference is that unlike Nixon and Trump, Democrats take the vote of black people for granted. According to Joe Biden in a recent interview, you "ain't black" if you're undecided on voting for him. Black conservatives call this mentality the Democratic plantation.
As bad as what Biden said was, Nixon said far worse. And he definitely took minority votes for granted. Dude was straight up racist. As for the rest, I'm personally not a fan of other party and not only advocate for a strong third party alternative (preferably a progressive worker's party) but a more proportional and democratic electoral system, including the implementation of rank choice voting.
Taking votes for granted means you expect someone's vote without earning it.
Yep. What did he do to earn it that you think Democrats didn't? I think they've all taken them for granted. Or are you saying that he just didn't care about black people at all?

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:09 am

Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:59 pm


As bad as what Biden said was, Nixon said far worse. And he definitely took minority votes for granted. Dude was straight up racist. As for the rest, I'm personally not a fan of other party and not only advocate for a strong third party alternative (preferably a progressive worker's party) but a more proportional and democratic electoral system, including the implementation of rank choice voting.
Taking votes for granted means you expect someone's vote without earning it.
Yep. What did he do to earn it that you think Democrats didn't? I think they've all taken them for granted. Or are you saying that he just didn't care about black people at all?
No, I am saying that Republicans claim to represent all people equally regardless of race, that they claim to be colorblind, whereas Democrats take for granted the votes of certain minority groups simply because of their group identity.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 am

Presto Kensho wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:09 am
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm
Presto Kensho wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:26 pm


Taking votes for granted means you expect someone's vote without earning it.
Yep. What did he do to earn it that you think Democrats didn't? I think they've all taken them for granted. Or are you saying that he just didn't care about black people at all?
No, I am saying that Republicans claim to represent all people equally regardless of race, that they claim to be colorblind, whereas Democrats take for granted the votes of certain minority groups simply because of their group identity.
I'm pretty sure that both parties claim to represent all people equally while doing nothing of the sort (I think they represent those with $ more than anyone). The difference is, one party says certain groups of people have been marginalized and disenfranchised and that we should attempt to make things more equal while the other side denies that there's an systemic problems and any proposed solution just makes things worse. And while both parties have failed the black community and others in many ways, it's currently the Republicans who are doing more to hurt and disenfranchise them, so they're simply voting for the other side. At some point this may change, but not if they continue on the trajectory that they are. While the Democrats are bad, I think the Republicans are worse, and the Trump administration is in fascist territory.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 am

Jason wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 am
Presto Kensho wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:09 am
Jason wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:54 pm


Yep. What did he do to earn it that you think Democrats didn't? I think they've all taken them for granted. Or are you saying that he just didn't care about black people at all?
No, I am saying that Republicans claim to represent all people equally regardless of race, that they claim to be colorblind, whereas Democrats take for granted the votes of certain minority groups simply because of their group identity.
I'm pretty sure that both parties claim to represent all people equally while doing nothing of the sort (I think they represent those with $ more than anyone). The difference is, one party says certain groups of people have been marginalized and disenfranchised and that we should attempt to make things more equal while the other side denies that there's an systemic problems and any proposed solution just makes things worse. And while both parties have failed the black community and others in many ways, it's currently the Republicans who are doing more to hurt and disenfranchise them, so they're simply voting for the other side. At some point this may change, but not if they continue on the trajectory that they are. While the Democrats are bad, I think the Republicans are worse, and the Trump administration is in fascist territory.
Please share, specifically, what the Republicans are doing to hurt the black community, other than not supporting reverse discrimination in the form of affirmative action, which harms both whites and Asians.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Jason » Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:41 am

Presto Kensho wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 am
Jason wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 am
Presto Kensho wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:09 am


No, I am saying that Republicans claim to represent all people equally regardless of race, that they claim to be colorblind, whereas Democrats take for granted the votes of certain minority groups simply because of their group identity.
I'm pretty sure that both parties claim to represent all people equally while doing nothing of the sort (I think they represent those with $ more than anyone). The difference is, one party says certain groups of people have been marginalized and disenfranchised and that we should attempt to make things more equal while the other side denies that there's an systemic problems and any proposed solution just makes things worse. And while both parties have failed the black community and others in many ways, it's currently the Republicans who are doing more to hurt and disenfranchise them, so they're simply voting for the other side. At some point this may change, but not if they continue on the trajectory that they are. While the Democrats are bad, I think the Republicans are worse, and the Trump administration is in fascist territory.
Please share, specifically, what the Republicans are doing to hurt the black community, other than not supporting reverse discrimination in the form of affirmative action, which harms both whites and Asians.
Well, voter supression efforts that disproportionately affects black people for starters. There's also the arguably racist rhetoric and behaviour of many Republican officials that turn them off from the party, and that the fact that the party, and especially Trump, attracts openly racist people. There are numerous obstacles for the RP to overcome if it hopes to appeal to more people of colour, especially black Americans, Latinos, and people from the Middle East.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:14 am

Jason wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:41 am
Presto Kensho wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:13 am
Jason wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 am


I'm pretty sure that both parties claim to represent all people equally while doing nothing of the sort (I think they represent those with $ more than anyone). The difference is, one party says certain groups of people have been marginalized and disenfranchised and that we should attempt to make things more equal while the other side denies that there's an systemic problems and any proposed solution just makes things worse. And while both parties have failed the black community and others in many ways, it's currently the Republicans who are doing more to hurt and disenfranchise them, so they're simply voting for the other side. At some point this may change, but not if they continue on the trajectory that they are. While the Democrats are bad, I think the Republicans are worse, and the Trump administration is in fascist territory.
Please share, specifically, what the Republicans are doing to hurt the black community, other than not supporting reverse discrimination in the form of affirmative action, which harms both whites and Asians.
Well, voter supression efforts that disproportionately affects black people for starters. There's also the arguably racist rhetoric and behaviour of many Republican officials that turn them off from the party, and that the fact that the party, and especially Trump, attracts openly racist people. There are numerous obstacles for the RP to overcome if it hopes to appeal to more people of colour, especially black Americans, Latinos, and people from the Middle East.
What, specifically, constitutes voter suppression? Please don't say voter ID laws, since other countries have them too.

I agree that Republicans should be more inclusive in their rhetoric, while explaining how traditional conservative policies can be helpful to members of minority groups. It's more of a public relations problem than an actual matter of policy, but it's certainly a problem.

I don't believe that Trump is any more responsible for white nationalists than Joe Biden is for Antifa. There's crazies in every party.

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Re: The GOP

Post by Presto Kensho » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:42 am

I forgot to mention that black women disproportionately have abortions compared to white women, according to the United States Census Bureau.

Democrats encourage black women to have abortions, and Planned Parenthood clinics are disproportionately located in black neighborhoods.

At the same time, Democrats have supported unrestricted immigration from Latin America.

If you want to know why Hispanics have surpassed blacks as the largest racial minority, giving the black community less power, blame the Democrats. Black conservatives can tell you this.

If black lives matter, which they obviously do, it applies to unborn black babies too.

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